Sandra L. Phillips
Senior Vice President, General Counsel, Chief Legal Officer Toyota Motor North America
00:50:50
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Show Notes
Sandra Phillips, Senior VP, General Counsel, and Chief Legal Officer of Toyota North America, shares her path to the C-suite, the role mentors and sponsors have played throughout her career, what gives her career greater purpose, and the importance of paying it forward to the next generation.
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About Sandra L. Phillips:
Sandra Phillips is senior vice president, general counsel and chief legal officer at Toyota Motor North America (TMNA), with responsibility for the company’s Legal, Sustainability and Regulatory Affairs, Social Innovation, Corporate Shared Services, and Compliance and Audit functions, as well as Toyota de Mexico.
In these roles, Phillips helps Toyota navigate significant business and legal challenges while supporting its expansion as a global mobility company, one that is an industry leader in autonomous, connected and sustainable vehicle technologies. She also provides strategic guidance in areas such as global mobility transactions, cybersecurity, complex litigation, information technology and crisis management. Phillips serves as an advisor to the TMNA Executive Committee and is a member of the company’s global leadership team. She is a past chair of the TMNA Management Committee, which is responsible for setting mid- to long-term business plans and driving opportunities to increase competitiveness and support mobility transformation.
Previously, Phillips was group vice president, general counsel and chief legal officer, and chief diversity officer at TMNA. In this role, she was instrumental in launching Toyota’s largest-ever philanthropic initiative, Driving Possibilities, a $110 million commitment to career readiness and community enrichment designed to improve access to high-quality STEM education for all.
As Chief Diversity Officer reporting to the CEO, Phillips worked closely with Toyota’s external Diversity Advisory Board and was responsible for advancing its long-standing commitment to diversity and inclusion through enriching work environments, employee experiences, the marketplace, and our society. Thanks in part to her vision and leadership, Toyota was recognized in Fair 360’s Top 50 Companies for Diversity list for 16 consecutive years, ranking in the top five every year since 2022. Prior to joining Toyota in June 2012, Phillips held roles leading litigation management and strategy at global law firms and at Pfizer, Inc.
As a change agent and ally, Phillips has been widely recognized for her contributions, including being named as one of Automotive News’ “100 Leading Women in the North American Auto Industry” and “Automotive News All-Stars”. In addition, Black Enterprise recognized her as one of its “75 Most Powerful Women in Business” (2017), and “Most Powerful Women in Corporate America” (2019). Most recently, Phillips was honored with the “Black Enterprise Lifetime Diversity Crusader Award” (2023) and Woman of the Year Award by The National Association of Minority Automobile Dealers (2023).
Phillips is an independent director for MSA Safety, Inc., where she chairs the Nominating and Governance Committee and is a member of the Audit and Law Committees, and The Chemours Company (retired). She serves on the board of trustees for the University of Texas Law School Foundation, the board of directors for the United Way of Metropolitan Dallas and the Southern Methodist University Tate Lecture Series, and is a co-founder of the Center for Women in Law at the University of Texas. Phillips is a member of the Executive Leadership Council, the Dallas Assembly and the International Women’s Forum.
She holds both a Bachelor of Journalism degree and a Juris Doctor degree from the University of Texas at Austin.
Transcript
Welcome to the show, where we chronicle women's journeys to the bench, bar, and beyond and seek to inspire the next generation of women lawyers and women law students. I'm very pleased to have joined us on the show, Sandra Phillips, who is Senior Vice President, General Counsel, and Chief Legal Officer for Toyota Motor North America. Welcome, Sandra.
Thank you. Glad to be with you.
Thank you for being part of this. I was thinking about when we first met. I think it was at the Center for Women in the Law at UT Austin, but you're a founding member. It's such a great gathering of women every couple of years. Here's my question. How did you first decide to go into law or to go to law school? What was the thing that inspired you to become a lawyer to begin with?
Becoming A Lawyer
Several things. First, when I was growing up as a child, my grandfather would take me around on some of his customer visits. He was in the dry cleaning business and he would always say, “Here's my grandbaby, Sandy. She can recite the Pledge of Allegiance.” I then recite the Pledge of Allegiance on cue and I grew up always talking and always expressing myself, whether it was through spoken or written words. He told me I had to give for gab and that stuck with me.
Of course, I was attracted to professions where I could use my communication skills. I used to watch Perry Mason as a kid. When I got a little older, Matlock. I loved the courtroom drama and maybe even going back to Gregory Peck in To Kill A Mockingbird. I had it stuck in my head that I wanted to be a lawyer and a trial lawyer in particular. That's what I set out to be. Now, my undergrad degree is in Journalism, and I was actually going to pursue a career in journalism first and then go to law school second, but I got a call from my oldest sister, who had recently graduated from medical school.
I remember she said, “Sandra, okay, what are you going to do now?” I said, “I think I'll graduate and get a job at a small television market and start my journalism career.” I remember she said, “Is that all?” I thought, “What can I say that's going to be a better answer?” I thought, “There was the idea I had about going to law school.” Sure enough, I called to investigate when the LSAT test was taking place.
I literally called within the last week that I could sign up for it to be considered for admission. Here I am, taking the LSAT and applying to law school. I got into the University of Texas and the rest is history. I had a feeling that if I'd started law school, I'd never do journalism. I wasn't sure that if I'd started journalism, I was never going to do law. I'm happy to say I didn't go down that road to test that theory. That's what brought me to the law. That's what brought me to law school. Here I am.
I love that dream bigger question that your sister asked, right? Is that it?
That's what she told me. I'm thinking, “Whoa.” That's exactly what I needed. I'm very thankful that she placed that call that day. That was before people ran around with cell phones. She had to spend a dime calling me on that one.
The timing was perfect for you to be able to implement it too. If it had been much later, you wouldn't have been able to move as quickly and take in the LSAT and all of that stuff. Sometimes things are meant to be and it all works out. Some people I've spoken to have done that route, been journalists either before going to law school or in tandem with going to law school. I guess there's a similarity and curiosity there in being curious about things, wanting to be a trial lawyer and also a journalist, asking questions, and all of that. There's a similarity in interest in both.
My mother was a high school English teacher. If we were going to do anything right growing up, we were going to write well. You couple that with verbal communication. It was a match made in heaven. Especially the trial lawyer part, as you said, it was well-represented in the TV and movies at this point. I remember Gregory Peck too in To Kill a Mockingbird and I saw that movie and I was like, “I forgot that they lost. How could I forget that?” He was so majestic in the law that his character and how he treated things so imprinted on me when I was younger that I assumed they won because justice always happens. No, that was the point there.
Going In-House
The real victory happened in the understanding that sometimes, when you peg a person one way, you don't know what their full story is. When you find out, you realize you were wrong. I think that has a lot of relevance to our current condition. That's true. Looking at the bigger context and the bigger picture of things instead of coming to a quick judgment. How did you go from Perry Mason and Gregory Peck in To Kill A Mockingbird and trial lawyer to where you are now in-house? What caused that interest in going in-house?
That's a long story because I think it was many years in the making, probably even going back to when I was a child. I was always in organizations, donating time, leading efforts, and gathering people together. I mean, even when I made mud pods as a kid, I was always trying to lead that effort with friends in the community. One skill that I developed even before I even hit law school was leadership and people and organizations.
When I went into practice to be a trial lawyer, and I was intent on doing that, what I found along the way is my leadership and my spirit of core, I think started to bubble up. Organizations saw me as someone who focused on building professionalism within the law firms or within the companies where I worked. Over time, I noticed I was getting pulled more into administration. To my surprise, there weren't a lot of people raising their hands to do it. People thought I was good at it.
I thought I was okay at it. I thought I was a better trial lawyer. There were many trial lawyers but there weren't as many people who were interested in the business of running a law firm. While my career started in-house, I cannot say that like little spark in me to go in-house. At that point, I was still all about trying cases, but once I got to Shook Hardy and Bacon, I ran the summer associate program, was on the hiring committee, and did all these different things.
I was being recognized for that work, and I realized, “I like the business side of the practice.” Once I went to Pfizer in 2004 and was an assistant general counsel, then I realized, “Not only do I like the administrative side of the practice of law, but boy, I like applying my legal skills and reasoning to help advance the business.” That felt cool. I tell my legal team at Toyota right now, our job is fundamental to business success.
Don't let anybody tell you otherwise because legal counsel and advice open the door to opportunities and allow ideas or products to flourish in the marketplace. If you don't have that, you might have a good idea, but maybe it doesn't even get out of the chute. If it gets out of the chute, it may collapse after it's been around the track a few times. I love the application of the law to help drive business. I got bitten by that bug when I was at Pfizer.
It's the legal counsel and advice that really opens the door to opportunities and allows whatever ideas or products to flourish in the marketplace.
I came back to a private law firm setting but with the idea of how I could use my skills uniquely from in-house practice to help the law firm help its clients. That's what led me to Toyota. It was a bit of a journey of where certain doors may have been closing. Other doors were opening. I wasn't trying cases every day. If I could have tried more cases, I might still be in that space. They were settling. I enjoyed working up the cases, but not nearly as much as trying them.
That allowed the opening to look at the practice in a different way. Having started what I thought was this is what I'm going to do and do nothing else, I have ended up not being quite 360 degrees away or 180 degrees away. I think it's been a bit of a maturing of, let's use one part of my job, of the legal strategy for litigation and coming at it at another level.
I enjoy that a lot, but I also enjoy the things that I didn't spend a lot of time on in my career, which are transactional work and some of those things that actually help you see how it applies to everyday business opportunities. I love it. I'm glad I had this journey. I wouldn't change a thing about it, but I'm glad I was open to other opportunities and realizing that because you think you want to do something doesn't mean you cannot be open to other things.
I think that's such a great thing to remember and to think about because there is a winding path to a career. Maybe there's something that you would enjoy as much or more than what you think you're looking for. Being open to what those possibilities might be is so hard. I think especially in law because we're so set on tracks and very focused on what we do, decision-making, and all of that. It can be hard to have that. Take the blinders off and be open to other things. Having that openness is like a growth opportunity in itself, but it's so important.
I also think what I heard you say was that there were so many different aspects or strengths that you had in terms of leadership and organizing and teams, which is so important to leading in the in-house context, that's so much more integral to that role and then combined with the reasons you were interested in trial work, to begin with. Sometimes, when you look back, you go, this makes sense. I had these skills, which now could be married in this one setting but which you might not have thought about if you hadn't been open to others.
That's exactly right.
Was the move to Toyota a secondment from the firm?
It was to start. As I mentioned, this would have been Morgan Lewis at this time. I went there to build a practice around helping in-house legal departments with their bet on the company's major multifaceted list of legal and business challenges. That happened for Toyota in 2010. Now, it was an interesting two years to get to 2010. I was starting to wonder if I had made the right decision with the economic meltdown.
That was a tough time thinking about that.
It was a tough time, and hiring someone from the outside may have been a bit luxurious for in-house legal departments. For Toyota, they had never faced anything like it. I think, I mean not patting myself on the back, but I think that was the wisest thing that the general counsel at that time could have done because I came in with some anchoring from these types of matters that I'd managed, at least since 1995, and here it is 2010.
I was comfortable in the environment of everyone coming at you from different places, whether it's government investigations, congressional inquiries, class actions, securities matters, product litigation, you name it. I was comfortable in that setting. I knew what the playbook should and could be and I knew how to execute it. The task was bringing that together to be a go-between the outside counsel and the in-house legal team.
There were a lot of cultural things that I had to navigate. Remember very well, the head of litigation told me, “Sandra, we're glad you're here, but I'm going to give you a piece of advice. Don't come in thinking that the way that you have managed cases in the pharmaceutical industry is the same as in the automotive.” He said, “Oftentimes in the pharmaceutical space for big hairy cases, those products have been removed from the market.”
Said, “Our products don't get removed from the market. They stay on the market. Even more so, our customers identify with their cars. It's a personal connection. Whatever you do, you must recognize that.” I remember thinking at the time, “All right, whatever.” Over time, I understood exactly what he meant.
That, I think, was the defining moment of what the real difference might be between an in-house practice and working in a law firm. When you're in-house, it's your job to help educate the outside counsel on those nuances and dynamics so they can understand better. Yes, they'll know the law. Yes, they'll know the strategy. Yes, they'll know the courts and the litigants on the other side, but it's our job to try to bring all that together in-house.
I was seconded from 2010 until 2012, when I joined as a team member of vice president assistant general counsel. I guess I did something right. I think I brought a perspective that maybe was needed. Often, successful companies like Toyota tend to place great value on knowledge of the industry, the company and the culture, and the product. I agree with that 100%. What I also agree with is that sometimes, having someone come in from the outside who brings a different perspective can be as valuable and as detrimental.
Sometimes, having someone come in from the outside who brings a different perspective can be just as valuable and just as detrimental.
I see that, particularly in areas where innovation is required, you want to have different perspectives and bring them into that decision-making because it can help you see things. People see analogies or they look at things differently. When you add that to the team, it can kickstart some things. Also, I wanted to mention the secondment part because I think that sometimes I think of being in the category of being open to things that may not be something that, if someone gets that opportunity at a firm, they would think about or that they would think, “I should do that, it would be valuable.” I think you're a great example of yes, it's incredibly valuable and you might end up being part of the team long-term.
You might end up being the general counsel, but even if that isn't your aspiration, the opportunity to get in and work more closely with your client is going to help you be a much stronger lawyer in a law firm. It was such an incredibly historic time in our company. I want to be there on the ground floor and see how the team members internalized it, and frankly, I want to work long hours around the clock to try to help, contribute to the solution, and solve the problem.
It was something to see clearly: you work hard, and in law firms, we know that, but seeing it, it felt like there was a burden being carried by wanting the company to get back on its feet. Not so much the long hours but the burden of wanting to make sure that the company could get back on its feet and restore confidence to the customer. That type of perspective is quite invaluable, but I would tell anyone, if there's an opportunity for succumbent, don't look askance.
I think you've got to work out what happens if you go back. For me, I had to farm out my work because, obviously, couldn't maintain the work that I had for other clients and be at Toyota boots on the ground full time. You've got to figure out what that looks like on the return, but that can be navigated if not negotiated. I wouldn't pass up the opportunity if one came.
General Counsel
That is often what I've heard from people who have done that, even when they come back to practice in a firm, they're like it's such a different perspective on that client in particular, but also on the concerns that the client has that I think outside lawyers don't automatically think of. That's a neat opportunity. What do you think is maybe one of the more underappreciated aspects of being in a general counsel role? Is there something that surprised you about that role as opposed to other roles in-house?
I think that lawyers contribute greatly to business strategy. At the GC level, you are a part of the executive team. Yes, you bring your legal hat to that meeting, but you become a business executive. Sometimes there isn't recognition that lawyers bring their great skills for listening and problem solving, being solutions-oriented, and being structured and methodical. You bring that to a business challenge and then you've got a winner because I think lawyers have training and experience that set them apart from almost any other executive in the C-suite.
I'm so glad you said that because I've seen that in action on boards, various boards, nonprofit boards, for-profit boards, that the training and you have a way of thinking, breaking down problems, thinking things through analytically saying, “It sounds like we need to do step 1, 2, 3, and others without that training are like, “What, how did you do that so quickly?” That's what we do.
It never fails. I see that day in and day out that, our lawyers bring even a confidence because lawyers don't scare easily because we deal with tough and rough and tumble all the time, especially if we're litigators, but even if we're not litigators, we're dealing with sharp edges all the time. We can bring a certain amount of calm and perspective to almost any situation that immediately takes the temperature down in the room. You take for example a big major legal matter that is at the top of the enterprise risk chart.
You have folks who want to know it's going to be okay. Lawyers are uniquely qualified to say, “We'll get through this and when we get through it, we'll be better on the other side.” That doesn't mean that it's going to be a straight line or that it might not have any paying points, but it does mean that you can see the end of the tunnel because you know how to get through those matters. I would imagine that in 2010, when Toyota was facing the unintended acceleration recalls and some of the crises around that, there were folks who would bet on Toyota and say, “We'll manage through this.”
From the legal perspective, they've never been through it. They didn't know what that looked like. I think lawyers who've had that experience can say, “Listen, we'll get through this, we'll get through it. It's going to take a lot of effort and time and toil, but we'll get through it.” What I recall from that period of time, I wasn't the general counsel. Chris Reynolds was as the confidence that he brought and calm that he brought to that situation. I got to see someone who was absolutely phenomenal on that particular point in particular, and see how it's done.
That's something that every organization values. I'll say one other thing, which is related, but going in a different direction. During the pandemic and some of the social justice issues that came in 2020, I sat on the company at that time. I was on one board, almost on another. After reading some of the articles about what boards were thinking, I noticed that a lot of them struggled with how to manage this big game-changing pandemic, followed by their team members already working from home, and then here comes the George Floyd murder. It was almost too much. Lawyers who have been accustomed to dealing with multiple crises and major crises at the same time can step back and bring perspective and help with an orderly plan that people can then fall in and get behind.
That takes the temperature down. Nothing's worse than folks running around not knowing what to do or feeling like their hair is on fire. Every lawyer's hair has been on fire. We know how to put it out and keep stepping. That's something that I think now, speaking of boards, are starting to realize is that lawyers make great board members, not for their legal expertise, although there's that, but because they bring perspective and structured thinking and they ask necessary, if not difficult, questions. Those are all things I think lawyers are uniquely qualified to do.
Every lawyer's hair has been on fire. We know how to put it out and keep stepping up.
Create Order Out Of Chaos
I think sometimes people look at it as the legal skills or training is a separate toolkit from the business toolkit. You're doing a good job of explaining how there's actually a lot of integration between those. You have some core skills as a lawyer that can apply to a number of different settings. I was thinking when you're going through all of the challenges, I was like, Utter chaos. How do you create order out of chaos, or at least have an order response or approach to many things at one time? Lawyers are good at that thing.
I'll give one quick example. I sit on the board of MSA safety, and a couple of years ago, I chaired the law committee and got a chance to work very closely with the general counsel at that time, Stephanie Shulow. We were working on trying to find a way to mitigate some legacy litigation that had been with the company for years. Working with her from the board side, but this was all driven by management, we were able to work a complicated deal to bundle up those liabilities and put them in the hands of another company that wanted to take that on.
Overnight, it seemed that the company became unburdened by some significant legacy liabilities. One of the stories I told her was when we would have mentoring meetings. I told her about my boss, Chris Reynolds, and how he helped the company navigate unintended acceleration at Toyota. He then moved on to great positions in the company, running manufacturing for a period of time.
Lo and behold, I talked to her about her interest in getting involved in the business and she indicated that she was interested, but this great legal strategy and business strategy put her in contention to be the president of America's business. That's where she is right now. Not every lawyer aspires to be in the business, but I would tell the listeners that law can lead to a lot of interesting things.
We see it already leading to perhaps being certainly someone in contention for the presidency of the United States. Of course, we have many lawyers who are former presidents. There's so much, it's so rich. Most lawyers I know are very pleased with their decision to have a legal education as well as to practice law or not. If they didn't, they've got other things to show for that they're equally proud of.
That's for sure. A lot of those amazing women have been on the show doing so many different things at different points. Also, I think being open, as you said earlier, means being open to other options throughout. Maybe you will do many different things in your career with your law degree and find new ways to apply those skills. Don't limit yourself to one thing that you can do. I think that's such an important thing to point out in terms of board membership and the role that lawyers can play serving on a board.
Mentors And Sponsors
Also, of course, more women should be encouraged to be in those positions at companies. I know Bobby Liebenberg and Direct Women, and all of them do a great job providing board-ready specific training if someone's interested in that. You mentioned Chris Reynolds a couple of times. I wanted to ask specifically, and maybe more generally, what role have mentors and sponsors had in your career? I know Chris is one of them.
It's made all the difference in the world. There's no doubt about it. You need both equally a mentor and a sponsor. They don't have to be the same people, but looking over my career, I think my mentors were my sponsors. I didn't have a lot, and I still don't have a lot because if you find the right one in an organization, sometimes that may be all that you need.
You need both a mentor and a sponsor equally.
Then you could take the pressure off and build your network of people who still may be more personal mentors, but maybe not the ones that sit you down and say, “Here's the way it's done, and this is what you've got to do.” I even went back to Chevron, my first job after law school, where I was the head of litigation, John Bailey. He told me, “Sandra, I think you could be a senator.” He would always pour that into me.
I don't know that I ever had a strong desire for that type of public service. I have great respect for those who do. What that told me was he saw something bigger in me. I needed that larger vision of myself. He was my original initial mentor. I moved to his firm after he retired and he left Chevron. Carla Herron, the head of the commercial litigation section, became my next mentor sponsor for many years and maybe even arguably still.
Here, I felt a little bit behind because maybe I hadn't started it in a law firm and started in a company. She quickly took me under her wings, put me on her teams, her trial teams, and mentored me. I remember her helping me refine my writing skills. I remember one weekend, she threw three banker's boxes at me and told me to write a motion. I was like, “What am I going to do?” I struggled, but I remembered how she had stayed with me.
When the opportunity to join Chakardi came when they opened a Houston office in 1995, she highly referred and recommended me and I went with her. There, she helped me when I was up for partner in 1999. She made sure I had work, and she kept mentoring me. When she left to become head of litigation at Shell in the early 2000s, guess what? She's sending me business. These were the things that I look back on and I haven't even gotten a Chris.
I don't know that I would be speaking to you now, but I thank John and him for helping me with my vision setting and mindset, as well as Carla, who was actively trying to teach me the ropes and create opportunities for me. That led me a long way. I would say the next significant mentor and sponsor was Chris. I'd actually met Chris when I was at Pfizer and he was at Morgan and Lewis. When I got to Morgan Lewis, he was already at Toyota and he remembered me.
When the UA situation hit, the unintended acceleration situation hit, and he already knew who to call. It was a great boon to my career in that law firm to have that opportunity to be seconded. Once I got here, the rest is history. I succeeded him as general counsel and now helped him with his responsibilities as the leader of what was formerly our corporate resources pillar, now our strategy and innovation.
I have other groups reporting to me beyond legal, but the confidence and open doors that he provided me were absolutely instrumental, especially when I came into an automotive company with a rich history of Toyota when I was basically coming from the pharmaceutical space. He helped close some of those gaps in terms of people who would say, “She doesn't know automotive.” It's funny how people always want to peg you in terms of what it is they think you don't know.
I think great leaders may not always be the ones who know the most about a subject matter or about an industry, it's the folks who know the most about leadership and human resources from the standpoint of how to build strong and effective organizations. From there, the knowledge and all of that comes into play. There are a couple of different ways to have a legal career or a professional career.
I'm a big proponent of leadership and being an excellent person, having high integrity, standing for something beyond the paper chase or the climb to the top, helping people along the way, and mentoring people. I want to be in that line in terms of leaders and people who've navigated the legal profession, not the line that is focused on self-aggrandizement or how many trials can I win. Those are not unimportant goals, but the people side of the practice is far more compelling to me.
You have such great examples and role models from your experience in mentoring and sponsoring you. I think that sometimes people have a hard time recognizing when that's happening for them. I think you showed it comes in many different ways. People have different things to teach you or to inspire you. As Carla said, “These are the building blocks of litigating cases and getting into the nitty-gritty of the skills.”
That's a great mentoring and later sponsoring relationship as well. I think it helps, as you did, to describe the different ways that can look like this because I think sometimes, especially newer lawyers, they are like, “I want to mentor. I don't know what that looks like or I think there's only one way for that to happen.” I think the common thread is what you mentioned about each of these people seeing something in you that you could bring to the organization or something bigger that you could do or contribute.
That's it. Oprah Winfrey says that she mentors people when she sees something in them that she wants to grow. I've always taken that to heart.
That's such a great description. That's the most rewarding situation. I think that is a beautiful way of describing what inspires someone to mentor someone else. They see that and they want to nurture that. They say, “I want you to be the best that you can be because I see, even if you don't yet, what you're capable of to that degree, paying it forward and giving in a broader way to the world and to the profession by helping someone become the most that they can.”
Lightning-Round Questions
This is so great. Thank you so much for doing this. I appreciate your discussion of your journey and coming to your current position and also your board leadership also. Typically, I end with a few lightning-round questions. My first question is, which talent would you most like to have but don't?
I would love to be a musician. Sing and play instruments because I love music. I had the chance when I was a kid and I gave up on it. I so regret that because if I could sing or play an instrument, you'd be sick of me because I'd be so full of myself.
No particular instrument? Do you have a particular interest?
I started playing the piano and truly wish I could play better than I do now. I tried to teach myself the guitar, but that didn't work. I think there'll be another phase in my life where I will explore the more artistic side.
I was going to say it's not over yet. Who are some of your favorite writers?
I will tell you that I love Maya Angelou. I'm trying to think who else I enjoy. I will tell you that Michelle Obama is a wonderful writer. I so enjoyed reading her books. I love the way she expresses herself, Alice Walker, who wrote The Color Purple. Those are writers I enjoy. The raw reality and authenticity, I love it.
I think that is a commonality between those writers for sure. Who is your hero in real life?
I guess I cannot say black Panther or something like that. My hero in real life is, is John Lewis. What I love about the former congressman is that he led at the level that I think he could. He wasn't trying to grab the spotlight, but what he did in his own right was perhaps the most important aspect of the civil rights movement. Of course, his passion and his dedication throughout his entire life. I've had a chance to meet him a couple of times, and I love his quiet understatement and his fierce passion and power. I like that combination. He's not, again, someone grabbing the spotlight, but somebody who is working at a level where it makes a critical difference.
It is, therefore a very effective leader. For what in life do you feel most grateful?
I feel grateful for the opportunity to pursue my dreams. Many people cannot for a variety of reasons. I have been blessed beyond measure even as I sit here before you to pursue my dreams and have limitless possibilities. That's the thing I'm most grateful for. Other than having a great family and wonderful parents, it's the first thing I said.
That's true. It's important to remember that not everyone has that option. Given the choice of anyone in the world, and it could be more than one person, who would you invite to a dinner party? They could be with us or not with us. You could have a fantasy dinner party with those who aren't with us and those who are.
I mentioned Maya Angelou, and I would very much love to be at a table with her. Shirley Chisholm, the former congresswoman, because she's got so much spunk and never gives up. Of course, I love Oprah. I've met her once, but it wasn't in a capacity where I could sit down and pick a brain. If all those great women could come to the table, you could throw in someone like Mother Teresa. I would love it. Love it.
That would be so interesting. I think sometimes having the combination of guests would make it so much richer, too. Having conversations amongst themselves and hearing what they would say as well. That's quite the combination. Was Shirley Chisholm the one who said about the table the seat at the table?
Yes. If they don't give you a seat at the table, pull up a folding chair.
That was it.
I love that idea. Don't be waiting around for people to do something for you. You can do it yourself.
When you said spunk, I was thinking of that. I think that was the quote I remember most from Shirley.
You got it.
Last question, what is your motto if you have one?
I do. If you Google me, you'll see it. “It's to whom much is given, much is required.” I firmly believe that I'm here for a purpose and a reason. As I mentioned, there are great opportunities to pursue my dreams and passions. I am very aware that not everyone is blessed with that opportunity, but since I have been, there's a lot expected of me. I have got to pay it forward.
I've got to lift as I climb. I've got to make my mother proud. I've got to do the things that bring honor and are worthy of my ancestors because they sacrificed so much for me to be here. I think about my grandfather, he died when I was in the eighth grade, and he hadn't yet seen my oldest sister graduate from high school. I think that he'd be so proud of his grandchildren.
I hope he's somewhere in heaven watching down and is very proud because our ancestors gave it all. I've always wanted to live up to whatever I felt my ideals were and what my potential was. I've got to help other people. I do that by being excellent first myself, then having a wonderful platform like the one I have as a general counsel at Toyota, and then taking that and using it for good.
One thing I've realized about my career may be more about how I've helped other people than it is about whatever I've achieved and whatever case I've won or whatever award I've been bestowed. It's about how I help other people. I firmly believe, now that I've been around for a minute, that's exactly what this has all been about. I still think I have a lot more to offer people. I'm going to keep going.
I think having a vision of contributing beyond yourself and having a greater purpose is so impactful in accomplishing more in your life in general, getting outside yourself to something greater for sure. What does that look like to you when you say contributing to others and what does that look like? what form does that change?
It's every form you can imagine. It's taking time to mentor. It's speaking at conferences and sharing my experiences is speaking on podcasts like this. It's funding scholarships for the next generation of lawyers who want to stand up for justice in our society. It's creating a pathway for women to excel and have the opportunities that I've had. That's what it looks like.
That's why I'm with the Center for Women in Law. These are all things that are preparing the next generation. I've got to dedicate the time to pour into other people the power of spoken word and encouragement is the single most important factor, I believe, in anyone's ability to attain their goals in life. I didn't always have that. I think that growing up as a kid, sometimes it was almost assumed. Sandra's a great student and she's going to go off and do great things, but there were various times I looked back, and I could have used some encouragement in a couple of places.
I'll be honest with you; even where I am now, I need encouragement. That's what I mean. How can I touch people? How can I reach people through whatever vehicle that is available to me? If it's my dollars, if it's my time, if it's my sharing personal story, if it's creating promotion opportunities in my legal department on the law firms I was in, bringing in a new pipeline of talent, that's what I mean. That's what I spend all day, every day doing.
I've definitely seen you thinking about others and opportunities for others. It comes very naturally to you. That sense of sometimes hearing the right thing at the right time can give you the fuel that you need to go on, to persevere, or to look for something. Think bigger, as you said at the outset, even with your sister saying, “Is that it? What about something more that can have such an impact?” I agree with that very much. That's part of the genesis of this podcast. What if somebody hears something? It will be the thing that inspires them to think bigger and apply for things they may not have thought of.
You got one life. You might as well go for it. Don't worry about failure because failure means you're that much closer to reaching your goal. Go out and have fun with it. Life is to be lived and dreams are to be pursued and chased and I think that's what makes the difference between people who enjoy their lives and their careers and are still at it after 33 years, in my case, and those who decide to go and do other things.
Don't worry about failure because failure just means you're that much closer to reaching your goal.
Thank you for this opportunity to let me memorialize my thoughts. It is my sincere hope that the listeners out there who hear this are motivated to start chasing their dreams down and thinking much larger than they ever have. Also, understand that our society needs you. They absolutely need you and cannot do without one of you. We need you all. Thank you very much. This has been terrific.
Thank you so much for being part of the show and for bringing, I think, a different perspective to so many things. I think probably one of the more articulate people about the role of lawyers in business and the connections between those skills. Very well said. Thank you so much again for this. I know that it'll be inspiring for a lot of folks.
I can’t wait to watch it again.
Thank you.