Episode 179: Center For Women In The Law Power Summit With Lori Cohen
Greenberg Traurig Vice-Chair, leading trial lawyer, and AI innovator
00:45:56
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Show Notes
The Portia Project presented a live program at the Center for Women in the Law's Power Summit in Austin, Texas, featuring an interview with Greenberg Traurig Vice-Chair, leading trial lawyer, and AI innovator Lori Cohen. We were thrilled to be invited to the Summit—described as one of the most significant gatherings of women lawyers in the country and "a veritable who’s who of influential women in the profession”—and are pleased to share Lori's career journey, grit and resilience with our podcast audience too. Lori's celebrated career hit a bump in the road when she inexplicably lost her voice. Her journey over the last two years to collaborate with her technology colleagues to create a new AI voice for herself, to allow her to communicate and remain in the courtroom, is compelling and inspirational.
Relevant episode link:
Michelle Banks – Past Episode, Paula Hinton - Past Episode, Amy Stewart - Past Episode, Greenberg Traurig, To Kill a Mockingbird, ElevenLabs
About Lori Cohen:
Lori G. Cohen is Vice Chair of Greenberg Traurig and serves as Co-Chair of the firm’s Global Litigation Practice, leading a group of over 700 attorneys nationally and internationally. Lori is Co-Chair of the Trial Practice Group, her “brain child” which she created at GT. Upon joining GT, she also built the Pharmaceutical, Medical Device and Health Care Litigation Practice. Under Lori’s leadership, this practice rose through the ranks and grew to include over 100 attorneys across more than 30 offices in the United States and globally; in 2018, the group was named The American Lawyer’s “Product Liability Litigation Department of the Year.”
Nationally recognized for her extraordinary trial record of 58 defense verdicts, Lori leads a global practice that focuses on complex litigation of all types including products liability and pharmaceutical, medical device, and health care litigation. Lori has served as national, regional, and trial counsel for numerous medical device and pharmaceutical manufacturers, handling all types of litigation, including class actions, multidistrict litigation, and trials nationally. Lori and her team routinely take complex cases to trial and win, including some of the most complex mass torts in history. Well known for her ability to win high-stakes trials, Lori is often called upon to “parachute in” at the last minute before trial, especially in challenging cases in dangerous jurisdictions. Lori is Board Certified in Complex Litigation by the National Board of Trial Advocacy.
Lori is a high-energy, high-profile leader among trial attorneys, and an effective, passionate mentor. In an industry where two thirds of attorneys in civil cases are men, and women represent only a quarter of lead or trial counsel, Lori stands out as a female leader and a champion of developing the next generation of attorneys, particularly diverse attorneys. She is widely regarded for her ability to build strong, diverse, trial-ready teams made up of not just lawyers but nurses, in-house graphics/demonstratives designers, technology consultants, paralegals and legal assistants, who are “all hands on deck” up to and through trial.
Lori was named as the 2020 “Life Sciences Attorney of the Year” by the Euromoney Legal Group, and honored as 2022 and 2019 “Product Liability Attorney of the Year” by Benchmark Litigation, which has also selected her as a “National Practice Area Star” (2020-2024), “Litigation Star” (2019-2024), “Top 100 Trial Lawyer” (2018-2024), and “Top 10 Woman Litigator” (2018-2023). In 2018, Lori was recognized as “Product Liability Attorney of the Year” by LMG Life Sciences and inducted into the Life Sciences Hall of Fame. She has been selected by Law360 as a 2018 “Life Sciences MVP,” 2016 “Trial MVP,” 2015 “Trial Ace,” and 2012 “Top Female Trial Attorney.”
Lori has been profiled twice in “Winning Litigators,” a special report recognizing the top U.S. litigators in The National Law Journal, which also named her one of “The 50 Most Influential Women Lawyers in America” and declared two of her defense trial victories “Top Defense Wins.” Courtroom View Network recognized her team’s victory in a pelvic mesh trial in state court in Missouri as the “Top Defense Verdict of 2016.” The American Lawyer recognized Lori’s team as their 2018 “Product Liability Litigation Department of the Year,” as well as the 2018 and 2021 “Regional Litigation Department of the Year for Georgia.”
Lori is one of twelve attorneys listed in The Legal 500 “Hall of Fame” for product liability litigation involving pharmaceutical and medical devices and has been recognized five times on their “Leading Trial Lawyers” list. Lori is one of a very small group of attorneys selected nationally for inclusion in Chambers USA’s National Pharmaceutical Industry Products Liability table (2010-2023). She is also ranked on Chambers USA’s Star Individuals list for Litigation: Trial Lawyers (2022-2023). Lori is recognized by The Best Lawyers in America, Chambers USA, Chambers Global, Outstanding Lawyers in America, The International Who’s Who of Business Lawyers, The International Who’s Who of Life Science Lawyers, The International Who’s Who of Products Liability Defense Lawyers, Georgia Trend’s “Legal Elite,” and Georgia Super Lawyers magazine, including “Top 10 Georgia Super Lawyers” (2013-2023), “Top 100 Georgia Super Lawyers” (2009-2024) and “Top 50 Female Georgia Super Lawyers” (2006-2024).
Lori serves as a member of the Emory Law School Advisory Board, as well as the Advisory Board for the Institute for Complex Litigation and Mass Claims. She is a member of the board for the Product Liability Advisory Council (PLAC) and the steering committee for the AdvaMed Legal Defense Academy. Lori is also a board member for the National Board of Trial Advocacy and the National Board of Complex Litigation.
She has served as an instructor for the National Institute for Trial Advocacy (NITA) and the Emory Law School Trial Techniques Program, and she has served as a faculty member of the International Association of Defense Council’s (IADC) elite Trial Academy.
Transcript
In this episode, I'm very pleased to be doing this special episode with Lori Cohen. It's special not just because of Lori as the guest, but that we're recording this episode as part of the 2024 Center for Women in the Law Women's Power Summit on Law and Leadership in Austin, Texas. It’s one of the most significant gatherings of women lawyers in the country, which has been described as including a veritable who's who of influential women in the legal profession.
I'm pleased to say I see quite a few prior guests of the show in the audience including Michelle Banks, Paula Hinton, and also Amy Stewart. I’m very happy to be here and I'm also grateful to both Amy and Deb Coldwell, my former law partner at Haynes and Boone for suggesting that we do this here. Let me start by saying I'm thrilled to have Lori. Lori Cohen is the Vice Chair of Greenberg Traurig and the leader of its Global Litigation Practice Group.
She's a formidable trial lawyer who I've admired for some time so I'm pleased to have this opportunity to sit down with her. I'm going to start as I usually start with the show, which is with the beginning of law. How is it that you came to it? How did you decide to go to law school? What made you decide to become a lawyer?
Lori’s Law Journey
When I was growing up in South Boston and going to public school, I did not know any lawyers nor was I exposed to the practice of law in any way. My family was a blue-collar family. I did not have any professional role models and certainly, not any role models in the law. With that said, as a child and a teenager with older parents and siblings, I always loved to advocate and somehow was drawn to the idea of advocating for others. Teachers in high school often commented that I would make a good lawyer probably because I had a big mouth so my journey on that path began even though I had no real idea of what it would entail as a profession.
When did you know that you wanted to become a trial lawyer specifically and what do you like most about it?
As strange as this may sound, when I read the book To Kill a Mockingbird in school and later when I saw the movie too, I knew then that I wanted to be a trial lawyer. I could envision myself being in the courtroom like Atticus Finch. It was more than a light bulb moment for me. It was electricity being turned on moment. I felt like I had found my calling and would then strive hard to meet that goal.
What I liked most about being a trial lawyer was what I had first envisioned. Stepping into the courtroom and owning it, being the master of the scene, or the choreographer of the trial. Also, using my strategy brain creativity, and passion to explain what was right and just to a jury, and a group of strangers, and having them come to the right conclusion by following and believing in me and my credibility on behalf of my client. I viewed my role as serving as the North Star of the trial and showing the jury the way and doing so creatively and passionately and I always loved it and still do.
I love that description of it as being the North Star of the trial. I just re-watched To Kill a Mockingbird, the movie, and I so followed Gregory Peck as the lawyer that he was the North Star to me. I was thinking, “This is a great movie because justice prevails,” and I'm like, “Actually, justice did not prevail. That was a terrible result,” but I forgot all of that because I was so fixated on how amazing Gregory Peck was and also in his lawyer role. When I heard that I thought, “That can happen. That the lawyer has that ability to lead things in that way and lead towards justice,” even if it doesn't work out in that particular case. What was your path to a big law firm?
I was the only one to ever go to Duke University from my high school and that had a great impact on me and my path forward. I felt extraordinarily lucky and did not want to do anything to screw it up, so I worked harder than ever. I went on to Emory Law School and still did not know where I would end up, but all the while, I knew I wanted to be a trial attorney. After my first year of law school, I had an eye-opening internship at a construction litigation firm in Atlanta where they did and I observed many trials, and that just reinforced my desire to work to become Atticus Finch.
After my second year of law school, I received one of the coveted spots in Alston & Bird's Summer Program and jumped at that still not knowing how long I would stay there or whether my desire to try cases would be met there. However, I was off to the races so to speak, and stayed at Alston for fifteen years and tried many cases while there often as the first chair and often as the only female in the courtroom.
“The only female in the courtroom,” I've heard similar stories to that from other guests on the podcast. Let's go towards more of your big law experience in terms of being a partner, but also just being an attorney. What are some of the more unexpected aspects of being in that role?
I had an unusual path once I arrived at Alston & Bird. It was my first big law firm. I am not sure it would carry over to others' experiences. As a young associate learning about the practice of law, I knew early on that first I needed as many trial experiences as possible and second, that to excel and advance, I needed to develop my own clients while also taking great care of the partner's clients as a priority.
Every firm is different, but what surprised me and I found unexpected in my early years in the 1990s and early 2000s was how much hierarchy and bureaucracy existed within the large firm. From very early on, I was looking for my freedom and independence within the confines and the benefits of being at a large firm, so I had to learn how to balance that. The answer not surprisingly, is to look for ways to develop your own business, find your own clients, create new paths for yourself and your firm, and make yourself a critical member of the firm, if not an indispensable one.
By the time I was a fourth-year associate and through much-dogged pushiness, I might add, I was trying cases as a first chair trial attorney and then I was using those experiences to get out there and develop business, speak at conferences, write articles, and make a name for myself. What is most unexpected is also most important at a big law firm, how to be a good partner to the firm, but also how to be loyal to oneself and create your own individual path. Creating your own path and your own opportunities, both as an associate and as a partner is most critical. No one will do it better for you than you.
I think that's a beautiful way of describing the balance that's necessary and how conscious you were of that because you're saying, “Yes, you have to develop your skills first. You also have to be thinking about developing clients and to understand that having the clients is what gives you the freedom.” It’s all of those together and mixing them together with the goal of getting your own clients ultimately. That's a great description. I've never heard someone think about it holistically in that way. It's a cool description because I think sometimes people think it's first this then that. It's all linear, but life isn't linear and it doesn't work that way. What is most unexpected about being a law firm leader?
This is a surprisingly hard question and not one I have thought about before. I think the answer is it depends on the firm. Although I was a leader in my practice area at my first firm, I did not truly become a firm leader until I joined my second firm, Greenberg Traurig in 2005. Since joining GT, I have held numerous leadership positions of which I am incredibly proud. When I joined GT, I created the interdisciplinary pharmaceutical medical device and healthcare litigation group.
What was unexpected for me was how supportive and encouraging GT was to me coming over and allowing me to create a brand new practice group virtually upon arrival. Sometime after that, I also created a second practice group within the firm's existing and all-encompassing litigation practice group. I have served on the firm's executive committee since my arrival at GT. Five years ago, I became the firm's co-chair of global litigation overseeing some 800 litigators.
I have also become one of the firm's five vice-chairs. This sounds like a lot of titles and it is, and I remain very proud of being a firm leader of Greenberg Traurig a.k.a. GT, but these are not titles for title's sake. These are not political titles. Rather, again, what is unexpected or surprising at GT anyway is that we as the leaders can and do have a real impact on the strategy and future of the firm. Moreover, there is not a bureaucracy or hierarchy as we try very hard to be the voice of the firm.
As leaders of the firm, we not only have a voice, but we try very hard too to ensure we are capturing the voices of all of the many thousands of people in the firm as best we can. As a leader, it is important to remember that people will look up to you and you should set an example. Part of this is always making yourself available for those within the firm who reach out or who need you for something. Not responding or not being available is never appropriate. Our job as leaders is not being in the way, but helping to clear the paths for those who need our help.
That sounds like you're turning your experience of too much bureaucracy around to make sure that you're helping others and facilitating others in that particular role, which is great. What advice would you give to women interested in practicing in a large firm or leading in a firm?
I would give women or anyone the following Lori's Top 10 List. Number 1) Be memorable, 2) Be an individual, 3) Stay true to yourself, 4) Create your own path, 5) Make a name for yourself, 6) Never be afraid to speak up for yourself and speak your truth, 7) Develop your own dream practice, 8) Develop your own clients or at least try hard to, 9) Advocate and mentor for those coming up behind or next to you, both at your firm and outside of your firm, and 10) Advocate for yourself because no one will do it better than you.
Those resonate with those who have been at the conference. Those are some themes that we've heard from other speakers as well and that is the whole purpose and focus of this group and the summit itself to elevate women lawyers and to pay that forward. Also, elevate others too. That's a great fit for this particular summit. What is the best lesson in leadership you've learned and how has being a partner opened up new avenues of leadership for you both in the firm and the community?
Coming to GT, I have seen this leadership model in play and have watched it for the past many years. We call it freedom within a framework. I call it being given the freedom to soar, but this is exactly why I came to GT when I did hoping that this would be the case and needing this to be the case. I was chomping at the bit to do more and to flourish by being more independent and having more freedom.
No one at GT has ever said no to any idea I had for building a practice, developing clients, or making a bigger name for my team. We do not restrict people or prevent people from developing further. I have been treated like an adult and in turn, I have never acted irresponsibly in terms of the firm's money. In turn, I treat and encourage my team members and my mentees in the same way and same manner.
By treating them like adults and individuals, my support helps create and instill their independence, creativity, and dedication to our firm and our team. This works allowing everyone to operate as individuals and teaching them to be responsible for their own decisions and the paths they take make them better and more dedicated attorneys.
Hearing that, Lori, I was reminded. One of my friends said something like this theme of root to rise. You have to be rooted in order to rise and grow to your full ability. It sounds like you have that balance. That's what you provide. An ability for people to be free and to grow in how they want to grow but to know that you have their back. If you didn't have their back, that would be hard to do. You've paid it forward. Some people have supported you along the way. Can you tell us a little bit about a mentor or a sponsor who's made a genuine difference to you?
Paying It Forward
Back in 1994 when I was a young associate, I was 29 years old, I went to the two men who were my mentors at the time and told them it was time for me to be the first chair trial attorney on a significant case against the best plaintiff's attorney in Georgia. It was a medical malpractice case for an orthopedic surgeon who had used medical devices and had allegedly caused quadriplegia in a young woman.
They hesitated a little bit, but ultimately, they agreed or some might say they relented to my haranguing of them. After I won this trial, which was a very critical juncture in my career path, it led to a call and an invite from a general counsel of the company that made the medical devices that the surgeon had used. The company was not named in the case. He had a bunch of medical dev cases and wanted to know if I could come to meet with him, his team, and his outside counsel team too to tell them how I had tried and won this case.
I said, “I would be thrilled to come.” When I went back and told my two mentors about this invite, they said, “We should come with you. They will expect a more senior attorney than you and we can be with you. We can help you on this opportunity.” I told them respectfully that I had received the invite and I planned to go alone. I did not want to be forever viewed as the band-carrying second or third on the team.
They again relented and largely understood, but told me not to F it up jokingly. Their support in both of those related instances made a huge difference in my career, but it was also my dogged determination, my pushiness, and my refusal to take no for an answer that also made a big difference, as you can tell from the story.
For the first half of the story, I was like, “That's great. You took this opportunity, you ran with it, and you performed.” The other potential client sees that and wants to hire you. There's then a little road bump there about, “Can you go to this pitch alone?” I love how you handled it and how they handled it in terms of, “Fine. You can go, but you better bring that client back.”
The guys were good, but it took a bit of me muscling them.
How do mentors or sponsors continue to play a role in advancing your career and contributing to your growth?
It’s because of my senior position within the firm, I do not formally have mentors in the firm, but the senior leadership in the firm has certainly facilitated my success by supplying carte blanche support and removing any barriers to my continued growth. I also learned from so many of the other attorneys in my cases, both within my firm, on my team, and even those who are opposing counsel to me in my cases around the country.
I would be remiss in failing to mention my clients too here. The clients have been a very important part of advancing my career and with whom I have developed very meaningful relationships. I could give you endless examples, but when you hold hands with your clients and walk through the fire of a trial or bet the company litigation together, the bond you develop is unbreakable and unparalleled.
When you hold hands with your clients and walk through the fire of a trial or bet the company litigation together, the bond you develop is unbreakable and unparalleled.
When you treat it like that, the way you said it, which was we go through the fire together and we're shoulder to shoulder reveals how you see it and how you see your role with the client. I don't know that everyone would see it that way so I'm sure that your clients feel that it matters. How have you mentored and sponsored others?
I pride myself on this role both within my firm and outside of my firm too. There is nothing more important than teaching and sponsoring the next-gen and creating opportunities for them. I have spent considerable time throughout the years mentoring so many of my firm and team. A great majority of them happen to be women on my team. I have an open-door policy and always have. I look for opportunities to take them with me to meet and get to know my clients and find ways to bring them to trials even if we cannot bill for them.
I encourage them to meet and develop their own independent relationships with our clients. I think if you asked my team of younger shareholders and associates, they would all tell you that I have never said no to any ideas they had to develop business and that I am always the first person to encourage and support them. I strongly believe in paying forward to the next-gen for what I view as my very rewarding and successful career in the law, but I also strongly believe, as I said earlier, that people are their own best advocates and should advocate for themselves as well.
That's so valuable to encourage people early on, to get out, to get known, to meet people, and to be known outside. As I would tell my associates, you need to be known outside the hallway that your office is in. Whatever you're doing, you need to be out getting to know people even if you're not directly getting clients right away, but you need to start that process and make it comfortable and regular so that you can have your own reputation.
Don't get me wrong, I can be a pain in the ass, but one of them is more loyal to their team than me.
Both can be true. Let's turn to your recent challenges and how you've conquered them. Would you please share what happened to your voice?
I would start by saying I am trying to conquer my challenges each and every day, but I would not say I have conquered them yet. I am on a dual track and have been for a while. On the one hand, I am trying my best to get my voice back through my medical research and therapy, both medical and non-traditional means or whatever I can find, and whomever has ideas for me. I am willing to go anywhere, try anything, and do anything. On the other hand, the other track I am developing and using whatever technology I can find or develop.
What was the first thing you did after realizing you had no voice?
The answer to what happened to my voice is easy, but unfortunately, the answer to why it happened is much more difficult. I woke up one morning over a year ago and had no voice or ability to speak. There was no warning or precursor. Also, thankfully, no other impairments of any kind. I have been to many of the very top institutions and experts over the years and no one has been able to figure this out, why it happened, how to fix me, or my prognosis.
I will spare all of you the long saga and simply say that I remain optimistic. I realized that while I was fighting to get my real voice back I had to figure out on a parallel track how to communicate with the world again. It is hard to recall the very first thing I did, but very quickly I embarked on extensive and intensive research using all of the tools and skills I had amassed over my 30 years of doing largely medical litigation. I figured that I could crack the case and who better than me to research what was happening to me and what to do about it?
I also began reaching out to various experts who I knew from all over the country to see who could help me locate the brightest and best experts to be thinking about my case and creative ideas and solutions for me. I continued to peel back the onion and reach out to authors, researchers, doctors, and scientists from all over the world. My husband described my approach as carpet bombing.
I was all over the place reaching out to anyone and setting up appointments at all of the finest medical institutions I could get into quickly. All the while, I was continuing to work, leading my team and my firm, and hoping I could resolve my loss of voice issue quickly. I certainly did not want to concede then or even now that this was a permanent loss that I could not fix by rolling up my sleeves and working harder than anyone else, which had always been my answer to every problem or situation I had ever faced.
In that story, some challenge comes in and you're like, “This is how I handle challenges. This is what I do. I'm going to research. I'm going to push. I'm going to find a way.” I think that we do that as lawyers, especially the hard cases. We're like, “That's a dead end. We're just going to back out of that alley and we'll find another street. That will be the way. Also, your doggedness was an asset in looking at all of this. I wanted to ask you, “What did you do to still be able to try cases?”
I quickly wanted to figure out how best to continue to live my life fully and exuberant and how to continue practicing law Lori style and not behind the scenes. My motto has always been, “Life is about being in the front row,” and that refers to the practice of law, going to concerts, and trying to have an impact on the world around me and those who may need help.
Life is about being in the front row.
I was using my text-to-speech apps on my iPhone and my iPads and started using two iPhones and two iPads so I could double track and do video calls or calls on one device and use the other one to type my answers with the apps that would immediately speak for me. However, the voices were always robotic and did not sound or feel anything like me, and I knew there had to be a better way.
We're experiencing some of that better way right now. What made you turn to AI to regain your voice?
It was during this time that AI suddenly was everywhere in the news and being talked about for the practice of law too in legal articles and meetings like this. I was vigorously reading everything about AI and as part of my role as Global Chair of Litigation at my law firm, we were putting together an AI task force and setting up policies and training for best practices.
At some point, I turned to my brilliant and talented friend and trial technology specialist, Gerard, and asked him if we had enough trial and presentation videos of me to create an AI Lori. He quickly got to work on this and he too read and devoured all of the different options that were out there and made nonstop calls to various AI companies. I am very lucky that AI was coming along at this time when I needed it personally and also, lucky that we had so many videos of me to utilize to create my AI voice too.
After much research and trial and error, Gerard figured out that through the use of ElevenLabs and my prior videos from trials and presentations, he could create or essentially clone the best Lori AI voice that was clearest and sounded the most like me. That is what you are hearing now. I also use what is called a text-to-speech app on my iPads and iPhones, which unfortunately does not yet interface with ElevenLabs, so I am stuck with the more robotic voices when I use my apps.
ElevenLabs is web-based and not part of an app, so it takes more time to generate the voice rather than being instantaneous like my app. Hopefully, in time, we can find a way to bring these together so I can have my best voice coming out instantly through my apps. Since losing my voice, I have been using my technology tools to run my practice, maintain my leadership roles in my firms and outside organizations, and participate in meetings with clients and my teams. Also, participate in calls with other counsel, attend court calls, and lead my team.
I also help conduct jury exercises, conduct mediations, participate in GT's executive committee meetings, present arguments to courts, argue motions, and attend hearings. I participate and present at conferences, meet new clients, and participate as a panel speaker at judicial conferences such as the Emory Conference and the Baylor Aspen Judicial Conference. I even presented at the Mayo Clinic's first annual symposium on speech issues to share my patient experience. Making my voice heard through these alternative means still has been so important to me.
I was listening to the list of places you'd spoken at and I was thinking how you were continuing to lead from the legal realm into the medical realm now with your experiences there. Can you share how the technology works and how judges and juries have responded to its use in court?
More recently, I was able to argue several very lengthy summary judgment motions in one of my mass tort litigations by creating a PowerPoint and then basically drafting my argument to go along with each slide and having it programmed to play along with the slides with my AI voice. I then will use my iPad to respond to questions by the judge and also to present my rebuttal argument, which cannot be prepared in advance.
Thankfully, the courts and judges have been very welcoming and patient, and my adversaries have been very kind and receptive to the technology. I do find that using slides helps keep things more interesting along with the AI voice. I gave a presentation at a products liability conference using a PowerPoint presentation and using my iPad to respond to questions after my presentation. I am continuing to adapt and learn what works best for me, my clients, and my team.
Remarkably, my AI voice is getting smarter in learning more about my intonation, tone of voice, and manner of speaking. I like to call her Lola. Some of the words sound great and some can sound goofy and odd at first, but we are continuing to work on it and Lola is getting better at the legal terms once she hears them multiple times. Is it all ideal? Absolutely not, but it is the best I can figure out for now.
I figure it is a race to see what happens first. Will my voice come back or will my AI issues become seamless? Regardless, this is a fight I must wage on all fronts at the same time. My hope is to use my AI to get back into trials before too long if my clients will be willing. I have not done this yet before a jury, but I know I will be able to do so in the right trial and when my clients are ready to let me do so. Given my experience thus far, I think I can do openings, closings, and direct exams, but I am not sure if I will be able to do the type of cross-examination I like to do without the power of my real voice, I have not given up yet and is still trying to figure it all out.
Facing Challenges
I wanted to talk about the human side, the heart side of this, which is how have you maintained your spirit and moved forward in the face of multiple challenges.
I did not let myself get down or feel sorry for myself ever. That is not me, and I couldn't let that become me. I wanted my story to remain one of optimism and hope and not a woe-is-me tale. I viewed this as a fight and one I had to wage on all fronts. Also, I had some very remarkable people in my life who I had to stay strong for and could not for a second give up on any front.
Again, I was carpet bombing. I was all over the place on all fronts. I was doing my usual work life, but now I was doing my research and therapy too. Above all else, I focused on pushing forward. As usual, I was goal-oriented, and this time I was fighting for myself as opposed to my clients and others. Some of the tenets I kept in mind were to 1) Keep fighting, 2) Embrace all of my GT resources and colleagues, 3) As much as I hated to do this, I had to learn to rely more on my loved ones, including my husband, my dog, and my dear friends and family, and 4) I also wanted to use this time of life giving me lemons to empower and enhance my team.
Also, enhance the firm's next gen's opportunities and relationships to help them deepen and strengthen their relationships with the clients in courts and embolden them to operate without me quite as much for now. I continue to do the things I am most passionate about like seeing the Rolling Stones in concert. After losing my voice, I still went to see them in Europe on tour and did not let my loss slow me down at all. I am up to 145 Rolling Stones concerts now with nineteen more on the horizon coming up this year.
That would explain The Rolling Stones screensaver that I saw. I think also that prior to this having encouraged your team to move forward and independently they were well positioned to do this. If you had led them differently prior to this, it would've been a much bigger shock. It's a testament to your long-term form of leadership that made them ready for that.
They have done well being thrown into the fuel more and have made me very proud.
What prior examples or experiences requiring high resilience were you able to draw on to press forward?
I had no specific examples or experiences to draw on for what I was going through all of a sudden. However, I always fell back on the thought that there were many other people who had it much worse than me. I often thought it could be much worse. I had my ability to walk, to see, to hear, and I had my brain. Yes, this was bad, but it could always be worse, and I had an amazing support network.
I have so many people who gave me love and support and an incredible law firm, GT, was giving me unconditional support too. As I like to say, here was my big law firm showing so much big love when I needed it most. With all of that and all of those people lending me support, I could not give up or let them down. Giving up was not a solution and was contrary to who I was as a person.
I needed to continue to show up to lead and to set a strong and positive example. I also had tremendous client support after word got out about what I was going through. One client in particular said to me, “Lori, you have done so much, especially for women in the legal profession. We will get you back to court if that is what you want.” She said to me, “If you had lost the ability to walk to see or to hear, we would find a way so let's figure this out. You have my support, whatever it takes.” This was very meaningful to me. I remember when she said this to me, it was the kick in the pants that I needed to think about the technology I needed to get back into court.
I think you're continuing to pay it forward in terms of the technology too. How have you shared the advances and the uses you have to better the lives of others?
At my firm, we in leadership always like to use the quote coined, I believe first, by Winston Churchill that we should never waste a good crisis. What do we mean by that? The quote has a somewhat colorful history, but I take it as being open to making the most of what life has to offer good and bad, and being willing to share and learn from all of your crises. My AI technology has helped me at a time when I needed it most, and luckily, it is in its heyday right now.
Make the most of what life has to offer, good and bad, and be willing to share and learn from all of your crises.
Through my unexpected journey of the past year, I have learned a tremendous amount about all of the people in the world who have lost their ability to speak for many reasons, whether it be illness, injury, genetics, or whatever. Through my work with Mayo, Harvard, and other groups, I have also learned that this population largely shrinks into the shadows and stops participating fully and avidly in life.
It is too hard and too challenging to be out front without the ability to speak. Many say I am very lucky that I do have the will, the resources, the experience, and the support network to try and figure out the best use of technology to help those who may not have the same ability to sort out how to use AI to help them live their best lives. I am committed to doing so. Also, paying forward everything I learn and hopefully lead by example with the use of AI.
I may not have my real voice back yet, but I am going to do everything I can to remain in the front row of life. Since our American Lawyer article came out in January in the legal community, Gerard and I have heard from a number of other attorneys who have lost their voices due to medical and traumatic issues. We have been helping these other attorneys by providing them with their own AI voices to allow them too to get back into court and back to public speaking.
Gerard creates their AI voices for them where they have videos and recordings like he did for me, and I share with them my techniques for how I do my presentations for court and otherwise. It is my hope that we can broaden our work with AI and take our lessons learned and these technology tools to an even broader population beyond just attorneys. Again, paying it forward and helping others who do not have the resources or the stamina that I do is very meaningful to me.
Lightning Round
If you haven't read that article, it's pretty fantastic. We have Lori here in person so we get to hear the story from her, but it's still interesting and the work that Gerard has done too is amazing. It’s good teamwork. Usually, I close the episode with a few lightning-round questions. We're going to do that and then we'll do a q and just with the audience afterwards. That's your special trait for being here during this. What is your top tip for effectively trying a case?
Be yourself, keep it interesting and compelling, and always outwork the other side.
To effectively try a case, be yourself, keep it interesting and compelling, and always outwork the other.
What is your top tip for becoming more resilient?
Never give up. Always look forward and never backwards. Hope, optimism, and fight.
Which talent would you most like to have but do not?
Singing? Who wouldn't want to be a rock star after all, but right now, I would take just speaking.
What is the trait you most deplore in yourself and in others?
My impatience, but in others, probably indecisiveness.
Who is your hero in real life?
It’s my husband Ken who is an amazing renaissance man.
What is the greatest accomplishment of your career?
I feel very lucky to have been given many wonderful awards over the past 30-plus years, and I do not take any of it for granted. I think the best awards have been those related to mentoring and my team's success.
Which lawyer do you most admire?
I think I will have to go back to Atticus Finch, who is fictional, of course. There are so many great lawyers who I have been lucky enough to cross paths with. It would be too hard to pick just one.
Given the choice of anyone in the world, who would you want as a dinner guest?
I should let the audience guess. It’s Keith Richards. What an incredibly interesting dinner that would be.
There were other members of The Rolling Stones mentioned, but not Keith. What is your motto if you have one?
Life is about being in the front row and living life to the fullest.
Finally, for what in life do you feel most grateful?
My incredible support network, starting with my husband, who is eminently patient and supportive, my wonderful friends and family, and being part of my GT firm family and community. I am very lucky to have this great circle of support and love.
Thank you, Lori Cohen, for being on the show. Thank you for being part of it in the audience. If you have questions for Lori or even if you have questions about the show or anything, please feel free and we'll answer and Lori will text.
Thank you so much, MC, for the great interview and all of your insightful questions.
Thank you.
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How did the opposing counsel respond to what you've been doing with AI?
They have been great and incredibly supportive and have invited me to speak at many plaintiff's conferences too.
Full disclosure, I am part of the GT family, but Lori, you mentioned the story about being a fourth-year associate and asking to first chair a trial. I passed a note to Elizabeth and I said, “How did she have the confidence at that age and that stage in her career to make that ask and to feel like she could do it?” I am very curious about that.
It’s because she's Lori Cohen.
That's part of the answer.
That is a hard question, but I knew that I was doing the work and was the one who knew the case. Also, I have been following and reading trial transcripts. I just knew I was ready.
Although there's an important point in there, you ask when you've done the work to be ready for it. You don't just ask. It’s kind of what Lori was saying. It’s skill building together with the opportunities.
I am still very close with the two guys who were my mentors.
Lori, I have a question for you. I'm curious as a litigator how your technique has changed because so many times you're in the courtroom, you're reading your notes, you leave the courtroom, and you're like, “I missed five of my points that I wanted to make,” because you get caught up in the flurry. Do you find that your technique is a little bit more organized and maybe easier to follow for the judge, and opposing counsel? How have you dealt with that?
It sucks, to be honest, but it forces me to prepare everything ahead of time and probably does make me more organized. Let's face it, I do not waste a lot of words now.
I've found the hardest things I've been through in life have transformed me in the most unexpectedly positive ways. What is a superpower that you have gained from this experience that you did not have before?
Getting My Voice Back
I would start by saying that my husband has had to learn to be more extroverted. That is his superpower but I think I listen more and I pay attention more because I am not talking as much.
I also think what Lori said about it being a journey. It's an ongoing journey and I think along that way, you can treat it as a growth opportunity or not, which is what you're saying.
We talk a lot about resilience. When you're down, how do you pick yourself back up?
I have met a lot of new people who are therapists and who deal with loss of speech and I have far more respect for them too. I do get down when I think about what I can't do and want to do, but I try to always think of the glasses half full and remember what I can still do and how I can help people by going through this journey. Who better than me to have to face this? I know that I have the will to fight and will keep going. Thank you all very much.
Thank you very much.