Episode 121: Alison R. Nelson
01:00:08
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Show Notes
Alison R. Nelson is the Director of DEI Strategies & Inclusion for Ford Motor Company. She fearlessly advocates for DEI in law and in corporate America. Listen to her journey and what she had to experience going into law as a woman of color. The opportunities just weren't the same. Black lawyers had to create their own law firms while white lawyers had the old boy network or legacy work. Times are definitely changing for the better and law firms are starting to see the importance of DEI. Join MC Sungaila as she talks to Alison R. Nelson about why representation matters and why people shouldn't stop fighting for diversity. Also, learn more about the Ford Law Career Academy and how Alison is fighting for a broader approach to law school. Listen to her story today!
Relevant episode link:
Alison Nelson , Patricia Hunt Holmes – Previous episode , Ford Fund , Ford Law Career Academy
About Alison R. Nelson:
Alison R. Nelson serves as Director of DEI Strategies & Inclusion for Ford Motor Company.
Ms. Nelson previously served as a career Ford Motor Company lawyer for over 30 years, working in various capacities in Ford’s Litigation Practice Group.
In August 2014, Ms. Nelson became the manager over litigation involving Franchise, Facilities and Insurance Defense issues. She also provided counseling for OHSA, Vehicle Programs and general liability matters. Prior to this assignment, she spent almost 10 years as Managing Counsel of Ford Motor Company's Consumer Litigation and Product Claims Group and Ford's chief counsel on all consumer affair issues. In addition, she has handled Commercial Litigation matters, including antitrust and contract disputes. Ms. Nelson also worked in the Product Litigation practice group at Ford Motor Company for 9 years and was the Team Leader of the General Product Group for 5 of those years. Prior to her joining the Product Litigation group, Ms. Nelson spent 3years working on regulatory and environmental matters.
Ms. Nelson is a member Ford’s Diversity Committee and is currently spearheading the development for the Ford Law Career Academy for high school students. She also has extensive bar association experience. She was a member of the ABA Board of Governors, National Bar Association Board of Governors and the National Bar Institute Board of Directors. She is also past president of the Wolverine Bar Association (NBA Affiliate). She has served on various ABA, NBA and State Bar of Michigan committees. Within the ABA she has chaired the ABA's Commission on Homelessness, served in the House of Delegates and was a member on the Commission on Racial and Ethnic Diversity in the Profession. Ms. Nelson has received several awards for her commitment to diversity, including the Wolverine Bar Association Trailblazer Award and the National Bar Association Presidential Award. She was honored in March 2016 as Alumni of the Year by the BLSA Chapter at Michigan State University Law School.
Transcript
In this episode, I'm very pleased to have joined us on the show, Alison Nelson. She has a varied career at one company. At the Ford Motor Company, she's had many roles in the in-house legal department, but now on the business side. She is in charge of diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives for the company. Welcome, Alison.
Thank you, MC. It's such a pleasure to be with you.
Thanks so much for joining and talking about your journey. We talked a little bit about the value of legal training and legal experience to the business side of a company, how you've been able to mellow that experience with your work in the diversity arena, and how valuable it can be. That's something we haven't had with someone who's had the unique combination of experiences you've had.
I'm excited to hear about that journey, how you came to the diversity space and in-house work, and for such a significant time at one company, which doesn't often happen these days. That's a testament to Ford allowing you to grow in different ways as well within the company, which is nice to say for the company itself. First, I wanted to start though with how it is that you decided to go into law. What caused you to go to law school?
I grew up in the city of Detroit. I have four older brothers, and two were much older. I have male cousins. They're African-American young men. I decided at the age of eight that I wanted to be a lawyer. My oldest brother had a run-in with the law, and that was my first introduction to the law. At eight, I sensed something unjust about the process as it related to him and other young Black men. My original plan was to go to law school and become a world-famous or at least a US-famous criminal defense lawyer fighting against injustices in the law, particularly in the African-American community.
I went to law school and started learning different areas of law. I had a mentor at the time who served on the Michigan Supreme Court, a former mayor of the city of Detroit. We talked about what some of my interests were. He encouraged me at the time to pursue all the opportunities that were being presented to me because they didn't come often enough for someone like me, a Black female who was entering the profession.
I ended up summering after my second year of law school at Ford. As they say, the rest is history. What I did learn on the journey, and I know we'll talk a bit more about diversity work, is that I could still fight injustices, but in a different way. The way I thought I was being led and called to do turned out to be different because of the great need and support for lawyers of color and women who are still heavily underrepresented in the profession.
Also, it's now translating that into the work that I do for Ford, but I realized that it was such a gap for this population of women and particularly lawyers of color, not being able to represent Corporate America. I thought, "If they don't get the chance, if I don't give it to them, who will? Even giving them a chance, how are they being developed if they've never done this work before? Who's invested in them?"
I'm making that personal investment to ensure that if it was a lawyer I brought on board that had not done the type of legal issues before, I personally was invested in their development. I achieved my purpose in what I felt called to do, but in a different way. I've been involved in community organizations and things related to other social justice concerns, but I had no appreciation for the impact and the lack of progress for women and lawyers of color. There is still not a lot of great progress since I started my journey in law school and even now.
It can be a little disheartening and frustrating at points in time. One of the good things about the show is that at least we can celebrate some of the things that don't happen anymore from those who graduated in the 1970s and the 1980s in terms of being told they shouldn't apply at all. They weren't open to hiring people for even entry-level roles. We've gotten past that.
There's been progress throughout the years. We wouldn't see women judges and women judges of color. We celebrate it with the US Supreme Court with a first. Progress is being made. We celebrate those while we also keep our foot on the pedal because we know we're still lagging behind. There is a lot of work to do, but it takes us to be in this arena and be the spokesperson to help see the change that we know needs to continue to happen.
There are so many things in what you said. I'm trying to process all of them because they're all good. The first thing was the initial impetus in going to law school and from your personal family experiences. I like the way you said it. It's a sense of, "Something's not right here," and unfortunately, we still have that sense now, as you said, with the same issue as what we talked about, but that can adjust or morph, or you can find other ways.
That particular way of serving on that issue, maybe you're in a position to serve in a different way, and that's that evolution that you talked about. Being open to that and having a focus or a mission in why you're going to law school, but then being open to other ways and other opportunities that might be more fitting or a way you hadn't thought of being able to contribute. It is important to be open to that and not be completely focused on only the one thing I'm going to go to law school for.
That's so true and not being rigid. Part of it came through learning. Once I got into law school and started talking to other lawyers and a great deal, I contributed a lot to my mentor and the conversations that he and I had. If you're not exposed to lawyers and the legal profession or particular career, what exposure you get can be very limited. For me, it was exposure to prosecutors and criminal defense lawyers and judges. That was all I saw.
These lawyers started advertising. No offense, but I call them the billboard lawyers because you can drive a highway and see all the billboards. You don't appreciate the opportunities that there are within the legal profession and the opportunity that if you're not there, how can you make a difference? I'm very thankful and grateful for the people that I was able to help. Had I not been here at Ford, I don't know if they would've had some of the opportunities they received. They've gone on to do such phenomenal things in their profession and their communities.
I'm thankful that I had an opportunity to help them. Had I been so rigid, I'm sure I would've done great in doing the criminal defense work, but we lose sight of how much need there is throughout the community and supporting women and people of color. It's not only one lane, and there are so many ways that we can help.
That's opening your eyes to that and being open to seeing that when you were in law school. The other thing that is an important piece you've touched on both ways in terms of the impact of your mentor individually on you and your career, but also your own individual impact within Ford in terms of being intentional about promoting and making sure that people with diverse backgrounds have opportunities to shine as both inside and outside the company. That is something that sometimes, we think we need to have a formal or official role for something, but you can make a big difference one person at a time yourself by taking those actions on your own, even if you aren't formally called to do it.
Sometimes we wait for permission to do things, and sometimes what they say is you ask for forgiveness if that's even necessary. My view is that I had to look around who some of my colleagues were hiring or who regularly used to do work. These were great lawyers. There's no disrespect for them. I would retain many of those same lawyers for my work, but I also realized that some of those lawyers looked more like my colleagues and less like me.
I add a lot of value, and I know that people that look more like me are great too. I should be hiring people that look like me. Let me do that. Don't get me wrong. There have been times, and I shouldn't say times, Ford has had a robust outside council diversity program through the years, which I've had the pleasure of leading for a long time. We've hired a lot of dynamic women and lawyers of color. Many of whom still do work for Ford.
As I said, what I also saw was sometimes people didn't know the area. I spent ten years in our product litigation group. There are a lot of lawyers that never represented an automotive company. They were great trial lawyers, but they didn't know how to defend an automobile and all the different parts and how it worked. They probably undoubtedly would've figured it out eventually, but I personally set up the meetings with them and the engineers.
You need to understand how this works. It's not only a steering wheel. There's a lot to it. It was also understanding all the mechanics. Many of them went on to be some of our best trial lawyers. No one else was investing in that. I don't think it was not a lack of interest. It was a lack of appreciation that if they had never done this work, who was going to bring them up to speed?
People of color don't get into law because of a lack of interest, it's because of a lack of appreciation.
I kept putting myself in their shoes, "Let me put myself in your shoes." I could appreciate that they had not done this before. I thought about what I wanted if it was me, then let me do the same thing, whereas some of my colleagues or other people had been working with great trial lawyers throughout the years. They had been lawyers at firms who were doing the work and were trained on the work. It was a different dynamic, but they were very supportive. They are my colleagues. I also appreciated that effort and acknowledged how helpful and important it was to do those things.
For those of us who entered the law with no one nearby in the profession, it can be a little bit daunting, particularly when you start law school. How did you come to become connected with your mentor? What does that mentoring mean to you in your career?
My mentor is Dennis Archer, the former ABA president. I didn't know him before I went to law school, but he was friends with one of my professors, a White male, and my property law professor, Professor Campbell. Professor Campbell saw something in me. He was aware of how I was performing academically. He saw something, so he reached out to Mayor Archer, who was Justice Archer at the time. Professor Campbell told me, "You're going to meet with him." I was like, "What?"
I went to his chambers. We met and talked. He is like, "What is it that you want to do?" We had this whole discussion. He gave me such sage advice. I share with other law students or prospective law students some of the things he shared with me, particularly when it's a woman or a lawyer of color, because it's still relevant to this day. We have stayed connected throughout the years, and I still consider him a trusted advisor. Even when I was making the change from the legal department to the diversity office, he and I discussed it as well. I got his input when I was thinking about it and when it happened. I still value his opinion. It means so much. He was someone that became a lawyer in the early '70s when there were even fewer examples.
When you're talking about we've made progress, there were fewer examples. What particularly Black lawyers could do was so limited. They had to do criminal defense, and whatever else work they could get. They didn't have a lot of options in going to Corporate America or one of the am100 or other law firms. That wasn't an option. They had to make their own law firm or hang the shingle. He saw that I had an opportunity even he didn't have when he came out of law school, so he encouraged me to think bigger. We talked about other ways that I could still make an impact, but he talked about how I was needed in other areas.
We've talked through the years that we're needed elsewhere, not only in this one lane. We can become overpopulated in some areas and not pursue other opportunities. We have certain areas that we sometimes gravitate to as lawyers of color and as women. If you think about some of the areas of practice, a lot of women and a lot of lawyers of color are employment lawyers. A lot of them are not product liability lawyers or mergers and acquisition lawyers. You don't hear about it as frequently. I don't know if it's comfort because we want to do good or we feel like this is a way to make a difference. We go down those pathways. It's important for us to pursue all avenues because then we're able to help open the door for others.
That's so interesting that he encouraged you to think about that, too, in different ways. Even if the law generally was something we could pursue, these particular arenas were not so considered in the career choices too. That resonates with me, too, because several of the trailblazing women will say similar things like, "You can be a partner in a major law firm now. You can do these various things that we could not. You should consider that or think more broadly about other opportunities because we couldn't. Most of our opportunities were in government work or certain roles. That was where we got our skills, but you have a lot more opportunities, and you should be open to those if there's something you're interested in."
Oftentimes, going down that pathway opens up more opportunities for others to follow or provide that support and that uplift that would not have gotten otherwise.
Sometimes people frame things a certain way that you're like, "I hadn't thought of it that way before. That's helpful," which then empowers you in that particular role to do what you did to make a difference for individuals, one person at a time, which will make a difference over time also.
I know that some of the lawyers I have helped through the years, many of whom I'm still connected to, are paying it forward now. They find ways to help other lawyers that are coming along and being that support. That's rewarding as well because it's, "I need to pay it forward too."
That's such an important thing. That's the next thing I was thinking of. I was like, "Alison, we're on the same wavelength," because that's what you do. You pay it forward. When you've been on the receiving end, you know what it felt like and how important it was. The best thing you can do is express gratitude to those who gave you opportunities, but more importantly, do the same for others.
As a woman and also for me as a person of color, it's so important to have that community. A lot of it is about community and being able to support each other. People sometimes think about the good old boy network. What they were doing was uplifting each other and having other people in the circle. While we're not good old boys, it's still important that we provide that same uplift to our communities that we're from and provide that support, even if it's only providing some mentoring advice. It may not be something you can do more directly, but taking time to have a conversation and providing encouragement to someone. It means so much, especially if you are one of the only ones in the room. Knowing that there's somebody else that's giving you that source of encouragement is very impactful.
For people of color, a lot of it is about community and being able to support and uplift each other.
A lot of things that might seem small to you, just at the right time for someone, can keep them going. One of my favorite stories of this is from the show with Patricia Hunt Holmes, who was one of the first women partners in Vinson & Elkins in Texas. She had a fabulous and very financially lucrative practice. As she moved towards retirement, she noticed that a lot of the partners from her firm, who happened to be men, wanted to take her clients out to lunch and golf and all these various things because they were hoping to have them as clients.
There was a woman who'd worked with her for a long time, who was quite good but was not made partner because she didn't have her independent book of business. What Patricia did was she told her firm, "You have two choices. It's up to you. One is you can give all of these clients. I'll bequeath them to this woman who you will make partner, or I will splinter the clients to the wind around the entire every other firm, but not you. That's your choice. "
The firm said, "We like this woman, and we're going to make her partner. We'd like to keep the client." She says, "I'm so proud that when I left, I paid it forward. I made sure that this woman who'd worked on these clients got that, and she was able to continue developing that book of business." That is something to be proud of.
That was one of the things when I was talking about some of the lawyers that had been doing work for years. It wasn't unique to Ford. They were at firms that had been doing the work for years, so they had a male partner that brought them along and taught them how to do the work. They did all of that, and there was not someone providing that as they were getting that legacy work.
Now, that's such a great story of hearing that Patricia Holmes made sure that another woman got her legacy work because the males were figuring out, "How we're going to get this work?" and it's, "No. There's a plan." They're wondering, saying this woman couldn't get a partner because she wasn't making enough hours. That's because people weren't including her in work, which is the struggle as you've been in firms that women and lawyers of color often have had is that they have to go out and cultivate their own business, whereas some of the men were able to be brought along because once again, that comfortable good old boy network that had been in place for so long.
We're seeing in certain environments, in a lot of firms and law departments, that it is being broken down a bit, and the door is open for more women and lawyers of color than we've seen in the past. As I said, we know there's still work to do, but there's certainly a lot of progress even from when I started practicing. When I started working at Ford in the early '90s, the women lawyers did not wear pants. Winters in Detroit were cold, and you couldn't wear pants.
By the mid-'90s or a few years after I was here, I noticed all of a sudden that one of the senior women lawyers decided to wear pants, and that opened the door for everybody else to wear pants. I don't know how it happened. I was so excited that we could now wear pants. We were formal, but we couldn't wear pantsuits. It's freezing cold, and you have to wear a skirt or a dress. Before COVID, everything was business casual, so you could wear jeans or khaki pants to work every day, regardless. To see that whole evolution of how that changed, to me, is still remarkable.
As this senior woman started doing this, it went out, "I guess that's acceptable." It's thinking of that as a way to initiate change, even in smaller ways like that. Tell me about your transition in-house in different roles at Ford and now over to the business side focused on diversity. Talk to me about the evolution on how you got there and what called you to that work at this point.
I've done diversity work throughout my career, focused primarily on outside lawyers and then very active in bar association work. I have been on the diversity committees with the American Bar Association and other bar associations. I always have been very active in this space. I also started a pipeline program for high school students. Ford was one of the early corporate adopters of the Mansfield Rule, working with Karen Aldridge and Stacy, and then 2020 happened. COVID shut the world down. There was nothing to do.
George Floyd got murdered, and everyone saw it. This time, we couldn't turn a blind eye to it. At that time, Ford became extremely intentional and leaned into the diversity space. At that same time, I was having my own epiphany through having time to think because there was nothing else to do. Through thoughtful reflection, prayer, and things like that, I felt it was time for me to pivot to do DEI work full-time. I had a conversation and went and got my I got my diversity certification from a program that Cornell offers online. It all happened rapidly.
I had a conversation with my then General Counsel, John Mellen, "John, I'm going to go and do the DEI work full-time." Honestly, I was prepared to leave to do it because I felt like it was the time. John was like, "At this time, when DEI is front of mind and so important to the company's journey, we don't need to lose you. We need to have you here." He talked to the person who was then our Chief Human Resource Officer, Kiersten, and then we talked, along with Lori Costew, who was the Chief Diversity Officer, and the rest is history.
What I've been doing in the DEI office continues to evolve, mostly because I have spent years practicing law. As a lawyer, the way you process information and approach issues, you're constantly doing legal analysis and risk analysis, but also you think about the optics. I did litigation for a long time. Not only do you think about legal risks, but you're also thinking about optics. You think about so many things. Just because I made the shift from practicing law every day, my mind and brain didn't stop thinking the way it thought.
We often laugh because who knew we needed a lawyer in the diversity office and how important that is to work? There are a lot of legal issues associated because you're dealing with employee data. Privacy issues are compacted when you're a global company, especially if you have operations in Europe, particularly Germany and some parts of Asia, where the privacy laws are even more robust, and now California is coming online. The other is employment because a lot of it involves employment policies and how you do things. Thinking about that, there are legal issues associated with it. In diversity, there are legal risks if you don't do things right. There are lots of good ways to make meaningful progress in DEI without arbitrarily deciding that we're going to go out and we're going to hire all women.
With diversity, there are legal risks if you don't do things right.
You and I know we can't make that decision that way. It still has to be done properly, but it also can be very intentional because it's how you are broadening who you look at in terms of your talent pool and things like that. Also, it wasn't just that. I talked about all the sponsoring that I had been doing. It was sponsoring lawyers. I have launched a sponsorship program in Ford that is focused on historically underrepresented employees, and in the auto space, it's oftentimes Black and Hispanic employees.
Many of the things that I did were things I had experienced doing in the legal department, but it's also the way that I process things differently when I've been practicing. It's like an engineer and a lawyer looking at the same thing, but we're not seeing the same thing because our minds are viewing it in a different way. It's been welcomed by the company to have me in this space. It's not easy work, but it's so rewarding.
It's also breaking down issues and looking at problems in a way that we're trained to do as lawyers. You came out of the legal department but brought the legal training with you, so you think about them differently.
That's so very true. That's a good way to look at it.
Hearing your story and your journey, there are different pieces throughout when you put it all together, "That makes Alison the perfect person," at this point in time to be doing this work at Ford, where you've been for a long time. You have a good sense of how the company functions, and all of that is put together with your initial interests that have been resparked by recent events. As you said, God puts you in the right place to do something.
He does. I had been a long-time employee, being a woman and African-American. I also understood the challenges of being a Black woman, being a woman, and a person of color in Corporate America in the auto industry. Even as I think about things, I also can relate to other employees and understand their journey. Having been at the company for so long, you know a lot of people. It's that trust, but also the value of having an experienced employee who has had similar experiences on the journey of being sometimes the only one in the room and what that felt like.
It's being able to be that voice for them. One of the other things that I do IS lead our race equity work as well. It's being able to be that voice of understanding what it's like and overcoming and persevering or sometimes being misunderstood or some of the micro-aggressions that happen. That adds value. The other thing that wasn't anticipated was that I've gotten involved in a lot of community things as well. Ford is building some new plants in West Tennessee. It is called Blue Oval City. I've gotten pulled into a lot of those discussions. Initially, I got pulled in by someone in government affairs, which I had partnered with when I was in the legal department working on some legislative issues.
We had a great relationship. As things came up, she was bouncing things off of me and said, "Can you participate in this call?" It evolved into me then starting to spend time in West Tennessee, then becoming part of a cross-functional team focused on Blue Oval City, but bringing my diversity lens to all of that. Because I see things differently, it's not only the diversity lens that I bring. It's thinking about how all the pieces connect.
If you were not on the business side now, you might not have been brought in to weigh in and sit at the table to talk about those things. Legal might not have been asked to come in, but you have this role.
Legal is not involved unless there's a legal question. For the team that engages a lot in the community, we think about what needs to be in place. We think about training from workforce development to what support we need to ensure that we have the workforce from the community standpoint. There are no legal issues that are immediately associated with it.
For some of the programs, you couldn't have legal tentacles, but in terms of thinking about it early on and understanding the needs of the community, you would not have brought your lawyer. That would've been a turnoff in many community spaces. Why did you bring your lawyer with you? Now, I'm able to provide that legal balance but also be a partner in this. The community there is phenomenal. They are so easy to engage in and so welcoming. It's been a lot of fun doing that.
What's so interesting, too, is the breadth of the portfolio that you're working on in your current role is pretty breathtaking, and it keeps it interesting. There are so many different things that I don't know. Have you thought you would be working on all of these different aspects in your current role?
Not at all. It all has evolved, but I have to go back to my time practicing full-time. I was always one that liked multiple things to do. I didn't want just one thing. I was creating other ways to do things and was always involved in bar association work and community work. I was used to having multiple things. I learned how to pivot from this topic to that topic and be able to engage. For me, that's a lot of fun and keeps you on your toes at times. It certainly did when I was the lawyer, having to provide legal advice and shifting from one topic to another, but my time in the legal department prepared me for this role.
I want to make sure you talk about some of the pipeline programs that you're working on and that Ford is working on, too. That is also interesting.
It was a few years ago when the legal department started thinking about doing a pipeline program and heard about this high school in Chicago called Chicago Legal Prep. I had a chance to visit the school, and it's a standalone but legal-centric high school. We knew that we were not going to go and create a school, but what could we do? I then spent time with our internal philanthropic, the Ford Fund, and then met with an organization that curates curriculum and also has helped plant and create schools.
We partnered with them along with the Ford Fund and decided that we would do an academy, which is a school within a school. Partnering with them, we identified two high schools in the Detroit area. I partnered with them and created the curriculum from the ground up. We didn't take a curriculum from any particular model because it was important to Ford and to me that the students get a full breadth of the law.
We did look at some of the programs that were out there, and some of them seem to be very heavy on Criminal Law and Constitutional Law. Being a corporation where we practice a lot more areas of the law, we're not doing Criminal Law work or doing Constitutional Law work, which is a very important area, but we wanted to give them a broader experience. We then created this four-year program from 9th through 12th grade. Each year, it's something different. There's always a law firm partner that's attached to the class.
Our legal department started with the first class. We support 9th-grade students at the first high school we launched in, and at that school, we have 9th, 10th, and 11th-grade classes. The next fall, we'll have our first 12th-grade seniors and a graduating class. At the other school, we have a 9th and 10th-grade class. We have our local law firm partners that each have a grade that they're supporting. They go in and coach the students.
For example, in the session that Ford does, we work with 9th-grade students on negotiations, and we serve as coaches. They get a pattern where they're negotiating against their peers to come to a resolution. They each have a client that they're representing. We serve as coaches and then point out what some of the significant legal issues are, understanding compromise and those things. When you think about it, learning how to negotiate or compromise is an important thing that lawyers do, but it's also an important life skill.
Learning how to negotiate and compromise is not just an important thing lawyers need to do, it's also an important life skill.
I was going to say that. I was like. "That's valuable in so many different ways."
Each year is something different. They learn about the overall legal process, from the trial court to the appellate process and understand the appellate process. We even have part of the appellate process where we spend a bit of time talking about Judge Damon Keith, who was a former Sixth Circuit Federal Court of Appeals judge out of Detroit who passed away but also was a great civil rights icon that paved the way for so many lawyers of color as well as women, particularly on the federal bench.
We talked about him a bit in one of our segments and his family members who are here. Some who are in the legal profession have supported that. We get into other legal issues because we want the students to understand that no matter what you do, there's law involved. Everybody has a cell phone and all the legal issues associated with that cell phone. There are so many legal issues associated with gaming, and people don't think about how much the law touches their lives.
It's important to have representation and be the voice of, and having women be a part of the profession because we bring that unique perspective. It's like Ford sells cars, and it's important to have the voice of women and the voice of African-Americans, Hispanic and other demographics because the buyers are different. What matters to you when you are looking for a vehicle may be very different.
We didn't have women that were part of the design. I've heard about how important the location of the cup holder is or where you put your purse and those types of things. The same is true for the legal profession. It is important to have that diversity of voice that happens when you have women, people of color, and others at the table because our life experiences are very different. The way we view things is very different. It's being able to create that pipeline.
We haven't had our graduates yet. I know when we started out, some of the students weren't even thinking about law. We get feedback from so many of them that they're now considering law as a career. I believe that some of them will go on and become lawyers and contribute to the profession, but sometimes it's important to see something to be something and have exposure.
Even your show is so important for young women to understand that there are a lot of great and dynamic women lawyers out there doing some phenomenal things that are making a difference in the community and the profession or whether they're no longer practicing law but still having that legal background. Representation is critical.
That's interesting that you say that some of the students in the program are thinking about law. One of the things that you've done by opening it up to a number of different things, from negotiation to more civil law settings, is that you are opening their eyes to the range of things that it means to be in the law. That is similar to what I hope is happening in this show, too, because otherwise, people might not think.
They'll think, "The law isn't for me. I don't want to be a criminal defense lawyer. I don't want to be one of the billboard lawyers." That's what it means to me to be a lawyer, but in fact, there are so many other things. By showing them that so they can see that through the parts of that program, you're opening their eyes to something they might not have chosen to do or thought about doing. That's smart.
If you even think about many politicians, a number of our past presidents have Law degrees, and you can see that they thought and processed information differently. You can see where their legal training is. I can see where their legal training had an impact and how they approach things.
It fulfills what Dennis Archer was talking about at the beginning, which is to think big and think more broadly about all of these different things possible for you to contribute to, especially now.
At least, give consideration to broader things. If you still feel strongly about doing Criminal Law, then at least I have considered it, and I may not have otherwise. One of the things we're talking about is even the high school program that we do at the Ford Law Career Academy, one of the other reasons why it was important to me to expose the students to multifaceted areas of the law was because I think about me and what I thought going in into law school and why I went.
Even though by then, I went to Michigan State. I knew more and had a better understanding of some of the legal issues, but I still was focused on how I thought I needed to help. I went into law school and started taking all the different legal classes. I told you it was a property professor that saw something in me, and I had the conversation. I realized how much I enjoyed so many areas of the law. I enjoyed learning about legal issues and understanding how the law works. That was also eye-opening, so I felt like the experience I got in law school was important to me so that the high school students could have a taste of it early.
That's true because that's what you get in law schools, all the different subject areas. What I love about the law practice is that it can evolve. You can deal with a lot of different parts of the law. It keeps it fresh, exciting, and challenging.
The law is ever-changing. Think about the midterm elections. In many states, either they have newly elected officials or new propositions on the ballot. Now, they have new laws that will still be met with legal challenges because if they became the law, there are still nuances in it that end up getting challenged in court.
The law is constantly evolving as well. When I started working at Ford, I thought I would be involved in supporting Blue Oval City, which is all about electrification. We build electric vehicles and have electric vehicle plants, but an electric vehicle plant as well as an electric battery plant that goes in the electric vehicle. It's all about electrification and Ford wanting to be the leader there. I had no concept that I would ever work on those issues, but it has evolved. There are a lot of legal issues associated with that evolution.
The law keeps evolving and there are a lot of legal issues associated with that evolution.
It's neat. The evolution of the law, the evolution of society and where we're going is all hand-in-hand, and it's neat to be a part of that.
When you can help shape things or have maybe a bigger voice when you are part of the legal profession.
I know some people who have joined the bench. One of the positives they thought was they were more likely to have a seat at the table, internationally as well, in terms of the rule of law initiatives and other things they were very passionate about. There's something to it that you can get a seat at the table and things that you might not have if you didn't have the legal training.
You get to be that voice.
What kind of advice would you give to someone who might now be considering a law school or an in-house career?
For someone who is in high school or college and thinking about, "Should I go to law school?" I'd say yes. You should consider going to law school. For those of us who've been through law school, it is not for the faint of heart, but it was worth it to me. If I had to do it all over again, I'd still choose the law and still choose to go to law school. It helped shape who I am and the way that I operate.
Even if you decide that you don't want to practice every day, I made that decision. We know folks that have gone to law school, and some have immediately gone to a non-legal job. If you look at a lot of the leaders of corporations and officers, you'd be surprised by the number of people that have legal training. I know I'm not the only lawyer that made a shift from the legal department to operations. Even people that have been in firms that have gone on to be leaders in Corporate America join their clients sometimes in a legal capacity.
What you learn and the broader understanding it gives you about what's going on in the world and how to process that information is invaluable. Even if you, like me, were thinking about social justice and being a change agent in the community, having your Law degree arms you and equips you to be able to fight for justice even further. For those thinking about that may be in law school or taking the LSAT, which is the Law School Admissions Test, reach out to lawyers. You'd be surprised about even sending an email to a lawyer, even if you don't know and saying, "I'm thinking about law school."
I've had a few law students reach out to me through LinkedIn in the past to connect. Now with LinkedIn, it's so much easier to reach out. You'd be surprised how willing people are to share. If you're in college or in law school, you have alumni, especially if you're at a college that has a law school. Even if you're an undergrad, reach out to the alumni. They're always willing to talk and share their experiences and provide input. That's an unused resource, too, about alumni. Alumni are often excited to hear from people that attend their schools.
Reach out and engage. If they're reading this, they can read from all of them and make a list of great lawyers they can look up and maybe reach out to or make some connections, even locally, wherever they are. There are women judges or women lawyers. We've grown quite a bit in the profession, so you can always find one of us. As I said, we're always open to talking. There are bar associations. Most cities have some type of women's bar association.
Some have multiple ones for Black women, Hispanic women, and women of different demographics. Even if you reach out through a bar association, you can find a woman lawyer, in particular, to talk to. I was saying, don't just talk to women. I talked about Dennis Archer, who has been a tremendous mentor to me, and I had an early sponsor with my White male law professor doing that. It is important to talk to people different from others and build those relationships now because, far too often, women and people of color don't have sponsors.
By sponsor, it's someone to advocate for them, someone to help them navigate, and someone to use their personal capital for them, and we don't. They happen more informally typically, for men and White men, and we don't. You start seeking out people and building those relationships. You'd be surprised how many people are willing to take a moment out to talk about their careers and provide advice and be a sounding board. Those relationships grow. When you're ready to finish law school, you now have someone that's in a profession that can help you navigate those waters as well.
That was a bunch of great advice and a lot of good practical tips in terms of where you can find people and reach out to you. I particularly thought the alumni connection was good because it's almost like that's too close, and people sometimes forget that. You're in the university, particularly if they have a law school. There are people there who will be happy to hear from you and would love to be connected to someone who's currently going to the school they went to. It is so great.
Even at law school themselves, the professors are lawyers. A number of the administrative staff the law schools have gone to law school are lawyers. Even if you're not in law school and you're an undergrad and thinking about it and there is a law school on your campus, you should get to know some of the law students as well because they can share insights. Those are the ones that help you prepare for the LSAT and give materials and all of that stuff. They help you navigate the process. There are lots of opportunities even there.
That's a good idea, too, in terms of information gathering and meeting different people, and also to not be limited in who you speak to and to think broadly about that. A lot of mentoring is that people see things in you that you may not even see in yourself. They can see the potential and the people who have that spark and what that spark that they see in you. It could be anyone, so don't limit yourself.
Also, we need diversity of ideas and thought.
Those are great practical advice. I wish I'd talked to you when I was thinking about going into it.
I wish I'd talked to me too.
It was all a hard one, but now you've got it all in order. It sounds good. Sometimes people are nervous about doing that. "I'm going to be rejected." You're right. LinkedIn makes it a little bit easier to do that. I have a friend. We're now good friends. We do work together, and she was coming to town. She looked at all the women lawyers in the area, in particular, who were doing work on behalf of women and girls and thought she'd have something in common with them. She sent us all letters. It was still snail mail time.
We got the letters, and she said there were a few of us who responded to her and went out and had coffee and all of this stuff. She's a terrific person who's doing amazing work and was an elected official and, hopefully, will remain an elected official locally. It's about not being afraid to reach out and invite people. If people don't want to do it, there are others who will be willing to do that. It can be a great connection that everyone is grateful for having even years later. You might be shy, but try not to be too shy.
Now because of 2020, so many people are much more accustomed to having virtual meetings, and because of that, people are more willing to take some time to meet with someone virtually, whereas before, you meet for a cup of coffee and that required a lot more time in order to get there. Now, even if it's only a fifteen-minute touch point, it makes it easier to connect.
That's a good point too. You're not asking someone to spend extra time on top of the meeting time with you if you can do it over the phone or virtually in some way. It can be so valuable. That's a perfect way to end because you have such great advice. I don't want to trample over that, so I want to make sure we end with that good advice that you've given to those who are starting out and to all of us as a good reminder to not be afraid to reach out if there's something we want to learn or someone we'd like to talk to. Before I close for good, I usually ask a few lightning-round short questions. I wanted to ask you a few of those. The first one is, which talent would you like to have but don't?
I don't know if it's a talent, but being able to open more doors and have more impact.
Who is your hero in real life?
I have to give a lot of credit to my mother. She's now deceased, but the call to service and uplift others is something that she instilled in me. I saw her do it lots of times. I didn't even appreciate it. She had a flower shop when I was growing up. I didn't even realize what a diversity thing was or such a thing. She was one of those that in the neighborhood, if there were someone that most people didn't want to be bothered with or someone with a mental health challenge, she would hire them to do stuff. She talked and befriended everybody. It's like, "Why?" Now, one of the things that I support is diversity recruiting. One of the people on my team does neurodiverse recruiting focused on people with autism and other disabilities.
It was what my mom was doing before it was a thing. As you reflect, you don't appreciate your parents as much when you're still growing up, but through the years, I started appreciating her. I got a lot of sage advice from her. She didn't finish college. She had some college but didn't graduate from college, but she was always a wise sounding board for me. I would have to make her say that she would be my number one hero. I've been so very fortunate and blessed. I've met a lot of great individuals along the way and have had the opportunity to see them do great things and care for each other because it's all about care. It's treating people with dignity and respect, but I also believe in paying it forward.
When you said care, it gave me goosebumps. I'm like, "That's what Alison's about." Given the choice of anyone in the world, and it could be more than one person, and they don't need to be alive, who would you invite to dinner party?
I'm a Christian, so I'd invite Jesus. I'd invite both my parents. They're both deceased, so I'd invite them. I would have to invite Dennis Archer because he's been such an important part of my life. I would invite Dr. Martin Luther King and his wife, Coretta Scott King. She was as important to the work that he did. I would invite Abraham Lincoln. It is a very different time. If I go back to that time, I would invite Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglass as well.
That's an eclectic group. They are all amazing. The last question is, "What is your motto if you have one?"
My motto is twofold. One, I believe that we should serve and support others. I believe in giving back, and I believe that it's important to bring others along and open that door and pave the door and not just bring them along. What I mean is to make sure that they have the support, the scaffold for success. I've been able to meet a lot of great people throughout my career at Ford and made a lot of connections.
It's important to bring others along and be the scaffolding for their success.
I'm happy. As a result of that, I introduce people and ask people to say, "Here's someone you should meet," because they may not have had a chance to meet them otherwise. My motto is if I can help someone, there's an old gospel song that says if I could help someone along the way, my living would not have been in vain. That's the motto that I try to live by.
You exemplify that quite well.
Thank you.
You're in congruity with your motto. You're living that out. Thank you again, Alison, for joining the show and talking about your philosophy, your career, and so many of the great things you're doing now and what you've done in the past. Also, it's good advice. As I said, it's practical advice for law students or pre-law students.
It's been my pleasure, and it's always good to connect with you, MC.
Thank you, Alison. You have been a very positive force in my career also, and I appreciate it.
Thank you. It's my pleasure.