Episode 137: Suzette Torres

Inhouse Counsel
Written By Third Boxcar LLC

General Counsel for Lennar Title Group, LLC

00:53:37
TPP 138 | General Counsel
 

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Show Notes

Suzette Torres, General Counsel for Lennar Title Group, LLC, talks about how she navigated from law firm partnership to inhouse, and the role she played in connecting inhouse women together through her leadership role and groundbreaking initiative with California Women Lawyers. She provides tips on networking and relationship building too, which she believes to be integral to her career success and satisfaction.

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About Suzette Torres:

Suzette Torres

Suzette Torres serves as General Counsel, SVP, and Corporate Secretary for Lennar Title Group, LLC (a subsidiary of the Lennar Corporation, a Fortune 150 company) and is a trusted, legal advisor to Lennar Title’s President, Regional Presidents, and key executives. Previously, she served as Associate General Counsel of Opendoor Technologies Inc, and as Interim Head of Legal (via secondment) for Opendoor's captive settlement company, OS National LLC. Suzette has deep experience in underwriting, litigation, and other title/escrow matters as she worked in-house for national title companies such as North American Title Company (Regional Counsel), Chicago Title Company (VP/Underwriting Counsel), and Fidelity (VP/Trial Counsel). When she was in private practice, she rose up to partnership at her firm (formerly known as Bardellini, Straw, Cavin & Bupp LLP) and became the only minority, female, equity partner.

For many years, Suzette was an active board member for the California Women's Lawyer's Association (the largest women's bar association statewide) and was the Chair of the In-House Counsel Network (IHCN). Her work on the IHCN programing won her an award for the National Women in Law (Collaborative Leadership Category) by Corporate Counsel and InsideCounsel, which honors general counsel and in-house leaders who have demonstrated a commitment to advancing the empowerment of women in law. She has been rated AV Preeminent® by her peers, the highest rating given by Martindale-Hubble®.

She also served as a board member of the Contra Costa Bar Association, Women’s Section, Co-Chair of the In-House Committee of the Asian American Bar Association of the Greater Bay Area, and a member of various bar associations including the Filipino Bar Association-Northern California, NAPABA, National Filipino American Lawyers Association (NFALA), and a member of the San Francisco and East Bay Chapters of CREW (Commercial Real Estate Women).

 

Transcript

In this episode, I'm pleased to have join me on the show, Suzette Torres, General Counsel, Senior Vice President, and Corporate Secretary for Lennar Title. Welcome.

MC, I'm so grateful to be here with you.

I'm so glad you've agreed to participate in this. I think your journey in-house is interesting, but I also think that the way that you've supported other women through bar associations, the California Women Lawyers, and supporting the In-House Counsel Network and creating that within CWL is an interesting story in itself, in addition to your own personal story and career. Also, giving back to others and creating connections with other women. I'm interested in exploring all that but first I want to find out how you decided to come to the law to begin with. What inspired you to go to law school?

I know I'm going to sound like a broken record with some of the stuff, but I knew I wanted to get into law because I knew what I didn't want to go into. Like every Filipino family who comes from a line of nurses, I knew I did not want to become a nurse. I probably would've been a terrible nurse or doctor. It all came about because I didn't know what I wanted to do when I was younger.

It wasn't until high school that I joined the mock trial team and my first taste of having that first mock trial, I was the attorney for the defense and it was so great. All of a sudden, it was the battle of the wits going back and forth. I was doing the cross-examination and that adrenaline pumped into my system and I was hooked. I would say during that time too, it was the time during LA Law and I wanted to be Susan Dey. I want to marry Jimmy Smits and maybe I still want to marry him, but I want to be a part of it. I love to be a game changer, make a difference, and argue. If you meet me from off the street, we cross the street, it doesn't seem like I like to argue, but I do. I love the battle of the wits. I enjoy it.

I think there are different ways. Sometimes, there are different threads that come together, and other times it's the moment where you go, “I like this.” This is what's involved in being an advocate; you find what interests you and what you find joy in.

Also, what I liked about the law was being able to hear people's stories. I had my old law professor. He used to tell me the people who win at trial tell the best stories. You pick up any case and there's a story to be told, whether you believe one side or the other. If you can take the same type of event, you'll hear two different stories and it's amazing how the little nooks and crannies change for each one of how they tell the tale. I always find it so interesting.

Storytelling is at the core of law. I tell stories in the written word and briefs as an appellate lawyer, largely for a short amount of time in oral argument, but mainly in the briefs. The trial lawyers are telling the story and advocating for their clients. That makes it interesting too. You said, aha, this is what I'm interested in. I'm going to go to law school and do this. How did you decide what you wanted to focus on? You have that battle of the wits, so did you decide right away, “I want to do litigation or some kind of trial work?”

I knew I wanted to do litigation, but it was funny. When I went to college, I had no idea what to major into. I think like all attorneys. We pick Political Science. I don't even know if I ever really used political science. I should have done something I would enjoy like rhetoric, Asian-American studies. I should have done something like that. I would have more fun, but I thought, “This is the path. We have to go. Political Science, here we go. At the same time, it was great to meet the people. We were stuck in that same major, but we all were like-minded. We all wanted to become an attorney and go to law school. It was nice to be in that band and group of people that we wanted the same.

There's so much political science or history or maybe English. Those would seem to be like the majors. I had Poli Sci too, but I broke out a little bit. I had poetry as my minor. I did get a little bit of that. You decided that you want to go to law school and you did the whole Poli Sci major. Did you have a focus? Most people don't decide, “When I go to law school, I know I want to be a general counsel someday. Here's what I'm going to do.” You went to private practice first, is that right?

I did. I fell into real estate because I was looking for a job after law school and my first job was for a landlord, a tenant firm in the city. We represented landlords and it was litigation day in and day out. I loved the litigation part, but then it was also very tough because it was litigation day in and day out. I don’t get a break. It came to the point where during that time as well, I had my plan set. My husband and I had just gotten married at the time. I passed the bar.

I was going to practice law for two years, then we were going to start our family, and that all came crashing down when I got cancer. I got diagnosed with breast cancer when I was 31, just barely two years after law school. It was crazy because I was like, “Now what do I do? What's going to happen?” I'll say that as life-changing as it was, it was great. For one, it builds character, but two, it made me think about what are my priorities. What do I want to do? Do I want to keep litigating like this or do I want to do something more?

During that time, when I was thinking about what do I want to do, the opportunity opened up where I could jump to a small firm and they were panel counsel for all the big title companies like First American, Old Republic, North American Title, and all of them. It was such a great experience because not only was I still being able to do litigation, but I was able to do bigger cases and I got to know the people behind the bigger title company names.

I stayed with that firm for almost ten years and I loved it. I learned so much from them and that's where I rose to become an equity partner. I feel like it was one of those things where I became a partner and I was, “I was the only female minority as a partner in this firm,” but all the guys were great. They were so wonderful to work with. I consider them some of my mentors as I was developing during that time. It so happened that someone from Fidelity was knocking at my door and asking me to come in-house. I'm like, “I would love to go in-house.”

It's funny because, during that time in law school, I had no idea that I ever wanted to do it in-house. I thought, “I'm going to be a litigator. I'm going to make a partner. I'm going to marry Jimmy Smits someday.” When I made that jump in-house, I was thinking, “Why did I not go in-house right from the start?” I wish you had that guidance. No one tells you.

It's interesting because as the show has evolved, that's been one of my interests in having the show is that I think about when I was in law school and there were only a couple of paths like, “Would you like to go to a law firm or would you like to work for the government or a public interest entity,” if they mentioned that. That was it. Thinking about other ways to use your law degree, you don't encounter that so much. I thought, “This is a way for people to learn about different things that you can do and how you can play many different roles throughout your career. Maybe open up some hearts and minds to things that they're not thinking of right now, but maybe they should.

I wish there was a list that they gave me during law school. I should say maybe not a list where it's like, “These are the only roles you could play,” but what opens up say, “You could do other things than being a lawyer. You could go into business. You could be a politician. You could do service. You could be a consultant.” You and I, I think we serve more as a counselor for a lot of our clients a lot of times because it's so many areas where we could use our knowledge of the law and flex that. That would be so great to have. Someone needs to come up with that. MC, you need to come up with 0:09:20.

We're constantly creating and building things, you and I, Suzette. It's interesting thinking about that because people often ask, “How do you get that opportunity to go in-house?” Working in that arena and with many clients, understanding their business and litigating cases for them caused one of them to ask, “Would you like to be part of the team inside the company?” That's certainly a very organic and natural path to take to it.

I think it's a combination of luck and networking. I cannot stress how important it is for attorneys to network with each other. A good example would be I am looking at the job market and I get scared every day when I see it. There's another layoff, whether it's a company or a firm or wherever and it's defeating and deflating a lot of times if you are part of that riff, but I think that's where the network is your support system. That is your resource. Play into that. Reach out to friends, family, colleagues, and past colleagues because you never know where an opportunity is going to open up.

If there's another layoff, whether a company or firm and you are part of that rift, the network is your support system and your resource because you never know where an opportunity will open up.

I can say the jobs that I've had, I'm so grateful for my network. Also, networks like LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. There are so many opportunities out there and I know it's easier said than done, but it can be done. A lot of times it's a big push for us to get up in the morning and go out there. I'm going to reach out to three to five people today and see what can I do. I'm going to apply to 3 or 5 places and see what I can do.

I think that's whether you're looking for a job, you're looking for clients or maybe you want to do more self-development. I'm going to check out one to two seminars in a different practice area just so we could understand that when we have this discussion, I can participate in discussion. I'll tell you, one of my favorite discussions to participate in is all about ChatGPT. I'm so fascinated with all this AI and all this technology that's coming out there. I'll say that's the new thing I'm trying to get into.

It's funny because I have a lot of colleagues and even family that joke about it and I'm like, “I know what you're talking about.” We can talk back about it. Sometimes those are great ways to get in and make new networks or develop the ones you already have. All you need to do is start a conversation and your network is there.

Being curious about new things and reaching out and talking to people is a good segue into the whole in-house counsel network and the network that you helped grow for California women lawyers. How did that come about? Where were you? What phase were you at in your career in-house when you started that?

I got to give credit where credit is due. When I moved in-house, I was still with California Women Lawyers. I served on the Contra Costa County Board and met the most amazing attorneys there. That was the room where it happened where we were trying to figure out events, resources, legislative bills we needed to get behind, and what things we needed to talk about. Being a part of that group pushed me to my limits, like, “I want to make a difference. I want to make a change. How do I do that?

I think Eliza Rodrigues first started the In-House Counsel Network, IHCN. She is an amazing and phenomenal woman. She brought a whole bunch of in-house counsel to try to start this group so that we can network to be a sounding board and resources for each other. To come to each other, whether it's meeting socially or if there's a problem or an issue we want to address as a whole. “How do you deal with it in your company?”

The next step beyond that is what Neda Mansoorian stepped up even another notch. She created the Puzzle Series event with California Women Lawyers. It was a great event. It was a three-day retreat for in-house counsel women to come and meet together to relax, unwind, and talk about issues affecting women. Things like, “How do you get to the boardroom or deal with the employment issues?”

The Puzzle Series Event with California Women Lawyers was a great event. It was a three-day retreat for in-house counsel women to come and meet together to relax and unwind and discuss issues affecting women.

It was great because not only do we have a retreat in some of these beautiful places, but it was also MCLEs we were able to give and we had such great sponsors. You were one of our sponsors. We had such great sponsors to give great content and substance to these retreats. Those are the things where I knew that being a part of that Puzzle program was something great. We need to try to start that up again. I had to step down because I was shifting jobs again, but I realized that I need to come back to CWL and see what I can do to help restart their program. I know they'll be knocking on my door.

Watch out. They're going to be calling you now.

I welcome it. CWL pushed me to help grow and develop that program as well. It was because of them is when I was able to win that national award for in-house counsel. It was the leadership award and I was so honored. I didn't even know I was nominated, but the women of CWL nominated me. A lot of the participants and a lot of that in-house counsel also sent letters of recommendation. I remember when I was receiving that award in Washington, DC. The announcer was saying, “I got to tell you, I've never received so many letters of praise for finding the candidates. Yours was amazing and we knew that you deserved this award.” I wanted to cry. I was like, “Is someone recording this?”

I think it says those had a positive impact on the women who attended and they wanted to make sure that people knew about that and that you were recognized for providing that experience to them. There's nothing more rewarding than having that feedback. I feel that way even with the show when I get notes from people personally about how something helped them or what positive impact it's having on their careers or their lives or something. It spurs you on to keep doing that and making a difference in helping people.

The one thing I would probably want to add is that when the pandemic happened and I think all of us went through this together, but I'll say for me, it hit me in the gut. Those 2 to 3 years where we didn't go out, we didn't go to any seminars hurt a lot of us. We thrive off that personal connection and networking. Now that we're trying to get out of this pandemic and things are changing, they're lifting a lot of these mandates, and we should take advantage of it. All of us should.

Whether it's starting a new program or starting a new one and reaching out, developing, and nurturing our network. I think it's important to try to get back to where we were or maybe not where we were but maybe we take a different direction. We don't need to always meet in person. It can be Zoom. That way we could reach out to more people and let's all get together that way.

It's been a challenging time for all of us in different ways, but it's helped you reevaluate what's important to you, what kind of things fuel you, and which things don't. It helps you out, especially for those of us who are busy and always traveling everywhere for everything. It's like, “I'm going to think about that. I don't need to be on the airplane all the time going to different places.” You can reevaluate and make choices about priorities and enjoy them when you travel and have those experiences with people.

The pandemic has been a challenging time for us in different ways, but it’s helped us reevaluate what’s important.

Also, to appreciate that since we haven't been able to do that for so long. That's a great story about CWL. I think a lot of the women's bar associations I've been involved in have a similar camaraderie kind of experience and support each other in leadership. However, you're right. CWL is special in that way and to see the support from so many participants in the program that you were part of to support you and recommend you for that must be amazing and gratifying.

It was gratifying and it's also very humbling. It always makes me think about it. I'm so lucky that I got a chance to meet these fantastic attorneys. I'm so grateful that they thought of me to nominate me. We always think about, “We could do more. Let's add more to the plate.”

Someone who's a generator and a hub of things that you are, that's the natural response. You are like, “What else can we do?” I think that's why people recognize you for it because you naturally go in that way. There was something special about those convenings. Bringing people together to share and foster those relationships across companies in-house. It's hard to be able to discuss things with people who are experiencing the same situations you are or similar circumstances to compare notes. “How do you do this? How do you work with this in your company?” Also, in a relaxed setting.

It's also getting to know people personally, not only in a professional way. That was a special thing. Neda has her company. Her events company was a long way getting there, but I thought, “That makes complete sense,” after the events for the In-House Counsel Network. I’m like, “That makes sense to me that Neda would have a company like that.”

I think startup companies need to look into Leviti and her programs because they're top-notch quality programs. I'm trying to figure out how do I put this in my budget. I'm still working on it.

I was like, “This is so cool what she's doing.” but it's an outgrowth from what she was doing from California Women Lawyers to see people come into their own and mature in that way. Tell me about your General Counsel role at Lennar now. How has that evolved and what does that look like for you?

I am General Counsel for Lennar Title, one of Lennar Corporation's subsidiaries. How I came about it? I did not plan this at all. I wish I did because I think I could have done it better, but what happened was I was first working at North American Title. This was before the split when States Title bought North American Title. Some of us went over to Lennar and the other went with States Title.

I was at States Title for a bit. What happened was an opportunity presented itself to join Opendoor as an associate general counsel. I made the jump and it was a great fit. It was weird because, during the time that I was at Opendoor, that's when the pandemic started. There was a lot of readjusting of our job positions. What happened is Opendoor had a captive settlement company called OS National and then they asked me, “Do you mind kind of stepping in and being our Interim General Counsel for OS National?”

I was doing double duty because they were supposed to hire their own general counsel but when the pandemic happened, we need to make a lot of adjustments, as everyone did. The time I was Interim for OSN doing General Counsel and then I was doing some stuff for Opendoor as Associate General Counsel. This weird tiering like, “Which part am I doing,” but was very eye-opening. I think it also helped me prepare for what is expected of a General Counsel.

I'll say it was great because, at the same time, my boss was Beth Stevens, who was General Counsel for Opendoor. A lot of it, I was able to learn from her and apply that to OS National and figure out, “What works for us? What doesn't work for us? Who are the stakeholders I need to talk to? How do I get to yes in some of these projects that are new and exciting? How do we get there?” During that time, it was crazy as any startup probably would be, but it was great.

I have to say that I've been very blessed to have a lot of great people to work with and learn from on both aspects of OSN and Opendoor. As we finally hired a new general counsel for OS National, I was working my way back to Opendoor and then another opportunity presented itself where Lennar Tittle was looking for a General Counsel. I quickly gave them a call and said, “Are you still looking for someone?” “Yes, we are.” They were able to fast-track my application. I went through the interviews. I talked with a lot of people, which was great. Some of the people at Lennar and some of my old colleagues from North American Title.

It felt like a homecoming of, “This is the natural transition that was supposed to happen. You need to come back home, which is over here at Lennar.” It's a great thrilling ride. I'm so excited to be part of this company and also with my colleagues again. I'm grateful for being there. It's challenging being the General Counsel because I'll say all the time I will get calls, “Can I do this?” I always have to take a step back. I'm like, “Who did you talk to first? Did you go over the proper procedures?”

I'm not going to rubber-stamp everything. That's not how it works, but it's great because a lot of it, we're feeling each other out of like, “What's going to work? What's not going to work? What are your priorities? Do I need to drop everything and work on project A or is this something that can be dealt with later in two weeks or progression?”

I think that's great that we can set up these types of protocols and procedures where we know how each team works, whether it’s from the business or the HR side. One of my favorite teams to work with is IT because they keep me honest. I was thinking, “I can’t get into the server, can you help me?” They work their magic and all of a sudden, I’m in.

They’re integral to everything working, especially with remote work. That’s very important.

What’s great about being general counsel, too, is that you get to explore. Especially the relationships that I develop with my outside counsel in the various states, I’m so grateful for them because I know how to do some Texas things, but I’m not practicing in Texas. I’ll call up outside counsel to help me with that. It’s the same thing with Florida and the other states. For that, I’m always truly grateful. It goes back to what we were talking about, the network. It’s important to develop these relationships and nurture them. Also, to know, “I want to be a trusted advisor to my business team, but I also need to have a trusted advisor with my outside counsel knowing that what they’re telling me is going to stick.

It’s important to develop relationships and nurture them.

I would like to say, “How do we get to yes?” If we have a new project we want to put in place, how do I get there? What are the pitfalls I need to be worried about? What protocols and procedures can we set up to protect ourselves? A lot of it’s like I always think about how does it affect the customer? Does this make it easier for them or is this easier for us? The endpoint is we want to develop products that will give value to our customers. How do we do that in this seamless process and flow? If we can get to that, we are good to go.

One of the benefits or the positives of being in-house is that you’re part of the whole team in that way and want to have the same focus on the customer in the same way. Being part of the business team, a key advisor to the business team, and all rowing in the same direction. That’s what’s special, I think, about being in-house.

I enjoy it. I wished someone had told me. I probably could have skipped the first ten years in private practice and gone into in-house.

Not many people do that, but some people have. It's pretty amazing.

I did enjoy litigating that time and my time as a private attorney, but I love being in-house.

I can see that in you. The connection that you have to do that and that you enjoy it, is what it's all about. Doing things that you enjoy and excel at as a result.

I will say though, that it does help that I do have that background in litigation because I think it helps. I'll say that for anyone looking to go in-house. If you have that background, that is one of many great assets to have because a lot of times you could find the risks very quickly. You know how to adapt very quickly. You think quickly on your feet. Whoever wants to come in-house, those are things you need to highlight to that company that it is the value. That's how you are the value-add to that company while you make a great in-house counsel.

Having that experience helps you evaluate the risks, but also, you have a real knowledge of we go into litigation, here's what's going to happen. Also, being able to work for hand in hand with the trial counsel or a litigation team. I also was interested in your story. There were a couple of things that came out. One was taking the opportunities. As you said, there was an opportunity at Lennar. You said, “This seems like a really good fit.” Having had the experience and the Interim General Counsel role while you were at Opendoor.

It's building on that. Taking the opportunity when there was that somebody might have said, “I don't want two roles. That's too much work,” or whatever but you took the opportunity to get that experience. Also, to figure out whether it was a role that you might even enjoy. Being a general counsel is different than having other in-the-house roles.

Having the opportunity to make sure, “Do I like that? Do I enjoy that part of the role?” Certainly, there's stress involved, but do I like what I'm able to accomplish in that kind of role such that I would go out and seek that somewhere else in the future? I think all of that is so important in being open to opportunities and taking them, even if they pop up out of nowhere in a way, and using those skills to move forward in your career.

You would say very sweetly, but that's my summary. I see what you're doing here, Suzette. That's good. Some of the judges I've interviewed terms of saying, “What would you say to somebody who might want to join the bench?” Many of them say, “If you can, try out the job and see if you'd like it.” You have this idea but have an opportunity to do it and to say, “Yeah. I do like doing that. That's different. What advice would you give to someone who might be thinking about going in-house or eventually becoming a general counsel?

A lot of people, we're on the same mindset that if you want to go in-house, you definitely know the business, but I think it's easier said than done.

It is because everybody says, “Yeah,” but what does that mean?

The answer is it depends. This is my take on it. I could only speak from what my journey was of what it means to me to understand the business. It's more so that I would want to know, “What does the company do? Is this the type of company that is also aligned with my culture and what I want to see done?” For example, I started in real estate and so I knew I wanted to stay in a real estate company.

If I wanted to transfer into technology, I was talking about ChatGPT, which also interests me, and I would love to go into that. The things you should know are, what is the company and what do they do? What is their company culture? What are the things that make that company tick? Do you want to know who the stakeholders are? Is it a startup or is it a private or a public company? Do you know anyone in there? Is anyone in your network in that position or in that company or are they in there? Can I talk to them?

Those are things of understanding the business and how you get to understand the business. You could almost Google anything. Go on the internet. Do some research. It's better than jeopardizing as we did back in the day. Utilize the internet out there and find out as much as you can about the business. Also, then talk to people. Look and see if there are blogs. Are there chats? You want to see if this is a company you're interested in and if it is a good fit for you. Understanding the business, you want to know what jobs are there available for this position. Are there legal jobs? Is it more of finance? Are they more of a FinTech type of company? Are there more operations?

Maybe they're more like operational hardware or is it software? Is it a software company where maybe they're doing SaaS or they're doing some other type of line of business that maybe you're not familiar with? Does that mean you need to level up and learn more about the products that they serve for the customer and the community? Those are the first initial steps of what it means to understand the business.

I want to be in-house because I don't want to do any more billable hours, but I think what helps is going back out to the network, whether it's the bar associations or maybe friends and family who are in-house. Have a conversation with them to understand, “What does it mean to be in-house?” You don't have billable hours, but does that mean you're not working? I was like, “You are working.” I always joke around with my friends like, “I wish I could bill the hours that I'm working when I've been in-house,” because I can get a bonus easily every year.

Working from home is also tougher because I cannot turn off my computer. I'll think about something I'm like, “Let me check my email,” and all of a sudden, I'm there two hours later responding to these emails, trying to put out some fires. It's a never-ending thing going on, but at the same time, I love it. I do. I am one of the few maybe that says, “I love what I do. I enjoy it.” I like the confrontation. I like the challenges.

It can be stressful, but I think it's about trying to make that work-life balance. It’s trying to get there. I don't even know if there is a work-life balance, but you have to be okay with the give and takes of how work can affect life and try to get that nice medium. For general counsel, I should mention this too. When I first was doing the Interim General Counsel for OSN, there was a big point in time when I thought, “I don't want to be general counsel.”

You are like, “No. I'm good.”

I just want to clock in and clock out. I could be a minion. I'm a good follower and everything. It was toward the end where you start getting into this groove where it's like, “It's nothing any different other than I really can get to point A and point B faster. If I tell someone, “I need this ASAP.” I'm like, “It's coming from general counsel. We need this ASAP.” I like being able to help light fires under people who need a little nudge and help us.

You facilitate things.

That's a better way to put it. I do like the challenge of it and it's inspiring. I would say for the other general counsel out there who I've met, I think they're amazing. Some of them are in totally different levels, like, “How do you do this day in, day out?” I could go on and on but what's great too is as a general counsel, there are also networks. You may have heard of them. Jen King also developed the Women’s General Counsel Network, which I am a part of. That has been such a great resource for me.

I think I could speak to say this too. For other women who are general counsel, it's amazing. The discussions we have and the back and forth. If there are job opportunities, you're like, “I'm looking to hire. Does anyone know or have a reference? Send them my way.” I think it's great. These are things that as we rise, we can help lift other people as well. I think that's so important. Anyone who's ever thinking about in-house general counsel, hit me up on LinkedIn. Let's talk. Let's have coffee or maybe a quick zoom meeting but I think it's worth it. At least, it's a start. If I'm not available, there are tons of other people out there who would love to have this open conversation. “What do I need to do? What should I do? What am I not doing?”

I think that's one of the things too. Other guests have said similar things. They're very open to serving as a sounding board or providing some insight to people and not enough people ask. I think people are scared. They may feel like people won't be receptive or they don't have time for me, but there are folks like you who enjoy doing that and paying it forward.

That is exactly it. I'm a full believer in that because I feel that other people have done that for me. They've paid it forward to help me grow and develop. I firmly believe that it is my role as well. I need able to pay it forward and help where I can. I think that's why I find my greatest joys are that being able to help someone that is in need that someone can ask for help and that people will surround them and provide ideas and resources. Drop pearls of wisdom on them to help them get to the next level.

That's a perfect summary of what I've seen you do and what you enjoy. What was interesting when you were talking about knowing the business or learning the business, people always hear that and often think that it means knowing the industry or what is the product of the company and understanding that. That's certainly part of it, but what you described is a much more holistic view of the company's culture and of the people in the company. A number of different things that I don't think that most people would think about when you're saying know the business. It's knowing the business in a personnel and culture way as well as what do they do.

What is great is that people will look beyond this industry itself. There are a lot of companies out there that are dedicated to doing good. Lennar is one of them. We are active. One initiative right now is called Feeding America. We're trying to get donations so that we can donate to help support that great charity. We have a virtual run and a 5K run coming up in a couple of weeks in Miami. We're raising funds to fight cancer and those funds go to these 501(c)3 charities, which is great. A full supporter of it.

A lot of the other companies, too, I'd say if you're going to look to going in-house, look at also the benefits that they give to their employees. Some of them are amazing. Some of them provide Carrot infertility services, which some companies help pay into that. I wish I was there when I was in the process of trying to get pregnant. That would help. They also take time to also provide benefits like mental health and legal services like estate planning and so forth. I think those are all great benefits that you should also tie into when you're researching what this company is and what they are all about. Is this company's corporate culture aligned with what I believe in as well?

I always like looking at the company's mission statements as well. I look at what's their mission statement for this year. I think Opendoor was like, “One team, one dream.” There was, “1% better every day.” For Lennar, it's like, “One team, one dream, one Lennar,” because we have a whole bunch of these subsidiaries, but we try to work together for the benefit of our customers to help them get into not just the house but into a home. It sounds like a pitch, but I believe in it. I believe in my company. This is what we are dedicated to doing to make this project easier for the customers.

One of the benefits of working in-house is having that kind of connection to the mission and the work of the company and all working towards that. You exemplify that well. It’s good practical advice about thinking about this and how you would work through investigating whether a company might be a good fit for you and whether being in-house would be a good fit also. It was kind of you to offer that to talk to people and give them some insight. That's nice of you.

I am now worried. I'm thinking maybe my LinkedIn is going to start blowing up and I’m like, “Who are these people?”

You are going to get a lot of messages. Watch out, but you can handle it, Suzette. It's okay.

“You’ve opened the floodgates.”

You've opened it, but it's good. You are very generous to the universe. The universe will be generous back to you.

I hope you're reading this, entire universe.

Thank you so much. I do appreciate that. Thank you so much for chatting and sharing your journey and how you came to where you are. You are such a positive, uplifting person yourself. I don't think when people think in-house counsel or general counsel, they generally have your very positive approach to things in mind. It's nice to break some barriers and some perspectives of what it might mean to be in these positions. You sound like a lot of fun to have to lead the team as it were.

I just say I am a lot of fun. I'm also very strict. You probably get this too. A lot of times when you walk into a courtroom or you walk into a meeting, I'm like, “Where's the attorney?” They are like, “Where's the general counsel?” I'm like, “We're here. We can start.” I think people should never assume. Always know. You want to be very open-minded, conscious, and aware and be present in each situation. I think my colleagues right now should not piss me off when it comes to certain things and they haven't. They've been so great. They know me too well.

You have high standards. I'm not saying you don't have high standards.

I do have high standards, but that's how we grow and we develop. It's all for them. My mom would say, “I'm not fighting with you. I am fighting for you.”

That's what I was going to say. It's for a purpose. It's for your benefit overall. I understand that sentiment. I feel that way. I think sometimes some of the associates who worked with me or my law students who I teach might say, “Care a little less. It's okay. We're fine with that.” I want them to be the best they can be. Thanks so much again for joining and I have the lightning round questions to end with. The first question is, which talent would you most like to have but don't?

This might sound silly, but I would like this talent. I want to be able to do the Wednesday stare. If you've seen the show Wednesday on Netflix, Jenna Ortega, who plays Wednesday, does not blink. I want that talent because she'd be awesome to play poker with. I will never know what hand she has. I think that'd be great for business, but I'm a blinker and I'm way too happy. There's no way I could ever be Wednesday because I'm a half-glass-full type of person, but I wish I had the talent to do the blank stare.

It would be good for poker, as you said, for sure. Who is your hero in real life?

This was a tough question to answer because, I'll tell you, I've had so many heroes, influencers, and supporters. The women of CWL were all my heroes. I'm going to call out Neda Mansoorian, Sutter Selleck, Renee Stackhouse, Audra Ibarra, Wendy Behan, and Eliza Rodrigues. They're amazing. My heroes from a personal level are my sister Cheryl and my mom. The other hero I have to mention, MC it’s you. I am prepared for this because I still have my book.

Anyone who reads this, if you don't have this book, you need to go get this book which MC compiled. It's Mother's Thoughts For The Day. I kid you not. I've read this and sometimes when I need a pick me up or I need to like recenter, I'll open a page. I feel like we have the same mom. I'm like, “This is what my mom just said.” It’s great thoughts. Some of these are one-liners. Some of them are quotes. You're amazing. You are also one of my heroes.

You are sweet. I'm so glad you have that and that you use it that way because I've heard a few people say that. That's what I hoped it would be. You could just turn to it and you need a little pep talk. It's like having mom there to give you a little tip for the day. I'm glad it's that way for you. Thank you so much. I was not expecting that at all.

You influenced me. You are one of my heroes.

You're very sweet. My mom is, at least.

She's great. She's got some good ones here.

She does have some good ones. It was helpful. Thank you so much. I'll ask you, who are some of your favorite writers since we were talking about books?

I'll say the one that I like right now is Ken Blanchard. He wrote the book Whale Done! I finished reading that book and it's a great book. It was part of our book club for the company. We read it and it's basically how, if you look at a SeaWorld, how the trainers are able to train a 100-ton whatever whales and orcas to do these stunts like on command. How does that translate into business? Also, encouraging your team to perform at a higher level.

Encourage your team to perform at a higher level.

It was a great eye-opening. It's also funny too cause I'm thinking, “Am I supposed to train my associates like whales? What's going on?” It was so well-written. Things like, “Well done,” whale done.” It's something that other corporations have applied in their motivational speeches to try to inspire and be like that leadership to help lift and help other their other teams grow and develop. I’d say that's one of my favorite writers now.

I had not heard of that book, so I'm going to check that out.

It's on Amazon.

Given the choice of anyone in the world, who would you invite to a dinner party? It could be more than one person alive or not alive. Whatever you like.

I thought about this a lot and hands down, it's my husband. He is the best dinner date ever. Everywhere we go, if we're traveling overseas or going to a local restaurant, he's hilarious. Also, he's the type of guy who will research the restaurant and the business. He is like, “What kind of foods? What are their specialties? What have the reviews been and everything?

If we go out to dinner and everything, we always strike up some conversation with a complete stranger. The next thing you know, we were exchanging phone numbers. He's so unassuming, but he's almost like your best friend from back in the neighborhood and wants to reconnect again. He's the best person to bring along on any trip. I bring him on business trips with me. I brought him to my CWL events. When we would hang out after the event, I'd beat him along and we’d talked for hours with the rest of the attorneys. He's not an attorney, but he fits in so easily. He is the best. He is.

What a great choice you made then for both of you. That's nice to be able to say that about what a great companion and friend he is too. Also, he is able to convene people and make people feel comfortable even when they first meet him. That's a special talent.

He's really good. I married well.

I was like, “Good job. Good choice for you.” The last question is, what is your motto if you have one?

My motto and I've done different variations of this motto, but the message is the same. My motto is, “Just because I'm on a diet doesn't mean I can't look at the menu.” I used to use it before for eating, but I was on a diet. It also applies in business and almost everyday life. Don't self-sabotage. Don't limit yourself to anything.

Open yourself up to the opportunities there. You shouldn't say no. Just look around at what's out there. Even if you're at their dream job, it doesn't hurt to keep one ear to the ground and look at what else is out there because you never know. Things change and you should be able to flow and adapt as the world changes. Enjoy life.

I was waiting for you to give an example of how this is applied outside the dieting context. I thought that's where you were going, but I was like, “Give me some examples here, Suzette.” Keeping yourself open to opportunities that might come along. At least, looking at them and entertaining them. Thank you so much for joining the podcast and having this discussion. It was about as positive and uplifting as I could have anticipated with you. I appreciate it. I hope that folks will appreciate some of the practical tips that you gave in terms of whether you want to go in-house or think about where would be a good fit for you.

I'm opening the floodgates, but feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn, but make sure you put in a note because I always get worried about the cold calls, “Who are these people?”

Some kind of note and why they're reaching out to you. It's always a good idea.

Thank you for having me here. I always enjoy talking with you.

Thank you so much, Suzette. I appreciate it. It's been a lot of fun.

Third Boxcar LLC
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